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Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:43 pm
by icy
Simon wrote:Indeed... I guess almost nobody would have expected this from Spacey...

However: Please all bear in mind that nothing has been proven, nobody has been judged guilty... all we have is an apology by Spacey even though he allegedly does not recall anything.
Yes, lots of people now accuse him, but that's all... accusations... Even though these are horrible accusations, we should not forget that accused people should be deemed innocent until proven guilty.

I never would have expected that. I didn't even know about hm being gay. I've been following his career for years, always one of my favorites. Right now, I don't know if I can watch the Shipping News again, as you might know, that's a favorite book and film for me.
I'm hoping what is said about him isn't true. Then again, I hope no one could lie about such things, but that's a whole other topic.

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:47 pm
by The__KingOfRhye
Interesting topic....I guess I don't have a big problem with separating the art from the artist. For one thing, I'm a pretty big fan of pro wrestling and I never really was bothered too much about that sort of thing. Like, I've always heard various stuff about Shawn Michaels basically being a total dick behind the scenes, but that doesn't change the fact that he's still one of my all-time favorites, and I'll go back and watch some of his old matches any time I can.

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:00 pm
by icy
The__KingOfRhye wrote:Interesting topic....I guess I don't have a big problem with separating the art from the artist. For one thing, I'm a pretty big fan of pro wrestling and I never really was bothered too much about that sort of thing. Like, I've always heard various stuff about Shawn Michaels basically being a total dick behind the scenes, but that doesn't change the fact that he's still one of my all-time favorites, and I'll go back and watch some of his old matches any time I can.

I don't follow celebrities personal lives very much at all. I guess that is why I was so shocked when news broke about Bill Cosby for example.

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:55 pm
by Roger
Spacey's sexuality has been an open secret for years. There are frequent references to it in comedy and film, including 'Bruno', in which the lead character (who is gay) decides to try to convert to heterosexuality because all successful actors are straight, e.g. Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Kevin Spacey.

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:05 pm
by Kes
A few years ago it was pointed out to me that Kevin Spacey got "mugged" apparently "walking his dog" on Hamstead Heath at about two o'clock in the morning.

It was then added "Who the fuck walks a dog at two o'clock in the morning, in a place that's renowned throughout the whole of London for being "the" place for cottaging?"

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:10 pm
by icy
Roger wrote:Spacey's sexuality has been an open secret for years. There are frequent references to it in comedy and film, including 'Bruno', in which the lead character (who is gay) decides to try to convert to heterosexuality because all successful actors are straight, e.g. Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Kevin Spacey.

I thought Bruno was satire, shock value if you will. Tabloids I don't pay much attention with, I think it's scum how they dig for info, true or not. Elton John sued a tabloid a few years back and won. His career bounced back. I don't think Bill Cosby's can.
Spacey was a fine actor. But I don't think he will be remembered for that now.

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:13 pm
by Kes
It's very difficult to try and draw lines when you're talking about celebrity, and how much the draw of celebrity makes "normal" people go further than they would, if that person wasn't famous.

If we're talking about those famous people taking "advantage" of people by using their fame, then I doubt there's many celebs who are totally innocent. There'll be some people who've crossed lines, and as many more again who have been within a whisker of crossing the same lines.

For example, can "you" tell the difference between someone aged 5840 days, and someone aged 5850 days? Those ten days difference can be the difference between what is considered concensual sex and statutory rape.

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:20 pm
by Roger
Spacey has made that grey area a lot clearer by making no attempt to get consent from his underage victim.

Incidentally (in the UK) it’s only DEFINITELY statutory rape if the younger party is under 13. Between 13 and 16 there are legal loopholes, especially if it was consensual and the girl objectively looked significantly older than she was.

Re: The person and the artist (sexual harassment et al)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:46 am
by RynaBelle9*7
For me, I still like Bill Cosby even after he was accused of the "shocking" misbehavior he committed and the same goes for Kevin Spacey. I won't stop liking a person's art just because of a transgression they committed that the public all the sudden found out about. How many women or men throw themselves at the famous ones and how much temptation can one man handle when it is consistently thrown at his feet? Hence, the truest test of fame.

However, I draw the line when it comes to finding out someone is a child molester. Then, every time I see them or hear their music or whatever, I become nauseated. So as to avoid such a response that I couldn't control if I wanted to, I generally turn off or switch out or change channels, whatever may be the case. I tend to believe children's words over adults though. I would take a child's word in full trust over a woman or man who may be just trying to get rich or noticed with an accusation. What is it any business what someone does in their own intimate relationships or if they catch a charge (which btw, they, just like anyone else are innocent until proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, guilty) to the world? ;)

The truth is that although these public figures or stars would be considered "role models" for weaker minded people. They are just human beings. Every human being has fallacies and a lot of human beings have broken the law at least once in their lifetimes, some get caught and some don't. The same holds true in the well-known or famous humans realm. It is horribly unfair to hold the famous humans to impossible standards that a lot of others who are less well-known, don't even adhere to themselves. Like Trent Reznor said, "We are all just 0s and 1s".

About 70% of the time, when it comes to famous humans, the people who follow them around to report every detail of their lives to the rest of us are using hyperbolic to make a story more juicy or taking someone's words out of context to blow it up. They are predators in their own rights, themselves, trying to take a bit of spotlight from the famous one for themselves. I don't watch the news because I don't believe in the majority of shit being spewed on it. I rarely watch television even. If I want to know something about a famous person, I listen to what they are saying in their own words in interviews by looking them up on my own terms. I don't read what someone else wrote about what they said to them. He said, she said nonsense. And, another thing, Bill Cosby was accused by so many women that it seemed like a big conspiracy to just bring him down. Who knows if the accusers are telling the truth when it comes to famous humans though, just because there is so much more at stake such as prestige, fame, fortune and so on? Really, only the accuser and the accused know what really happened.