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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Montavilla » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:05 am

Innuendoes wrote:I could go around saying #MeToo for a number of reasons, one being the ruination of my career. But I don't. Just throwing that in there for whatever reason.


I think you just did.
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Roger » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:11 am

Montavilla wrote:#MeToo isn't a campaign. A campaign is something that someone is in charge of, with a strategy and an organization.

#MeToo is a movement, an organic reaction to seeing a fellow human being speak the truth, recognizing it as truth, and adding one's own experience to that conversation.

It reminds me a lot of what happened in 1991, when Anita Hill testified about the harassment she experienced from Clarence Thomas. We didn't have twitter back then, but I vividly remember going to a theater rehearsal that week. All the guys in the group were cracking jokes. The one other woman and I just stared at each other, saying, "Can you believe what's happening?" We were stricken to our souls, and the guys around us were completely oblivious. That was the feeling.

The moment was happening for millions of other women -- and the following year, the number of women in the Senate doubled. Because women were collectively releasing their rage over how one woman was treated for telling her truth. I see the same thing happening now, as women are rushing to run for political office.

I agree with you that saying, "Gee, nice boobs" is not the same -- not even close to the same -- as grabbing a woman by the back of the neck and forcing her to watch in a mirror as you masterbate behind her. But... if you have to think twice about saying that in a workplace, think about all the things the women in that workplace have to not say because it could get them fired. Things like, "Stop grabbing my boobs," or "Please take your hand off my vagina."

I have an analogy: Brandishing a knife is not the same as sticking into a another person. But, brandishing a knife is still not appropriate in the workplace. Even talking about how much you'd like to take out a knife and brandish (or use) it in the workplace would get you fired. Unless, of course, you work in a knife factory.

Telling a co-worker that she has nice boobs is not the same as raping her. But it's still not appropriate in the workplace. Unless, of course, you work in a strip club.


I completely agree.

Of course there'll be a few people who see #MeToo as a bandwagon to jump on. Similarly, there'll always be a very, very small (but always highly publicised!) number of false rape allegations.

These don't mean that the vast majority aren't genuine and terrible. Of course that's what the predators would like us to think, and that's why they'll go to great lengths to focus on the very rare false allegations
 
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Roger » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:13 am

Anyway. The Jerusalem thing and the National Park thing are both massive distraction tactics. They're divisive and will keep people busy debating whilst other stuff goes on in the background. Russia stuff, probably.
 
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:22 am

Montavilla wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:I could go around saying #MeToo for a number of reasons, one being the ruination of my career. But I don't. Just throwing that in there for whatever reason.


I think you just did.


I didn't go into any details, though, did I?
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Montavilla » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:58 am

Innuendoes wrote:
Montavilla wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:I could go around saying #MeToo for a number of reasons, one being the ruination of my career. But I don't. Just throwing that in there for whatever reason.


I think you just did.


I didn't go into any details, though, did I?


I guess I really don't know what you're saying here. It sounds like you're criticizing #MeToo people for telling their stories.

I don't want to make that assumption, so... what are you saying?
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:07 am

No, I am not saying that at all. I do think some people have jumped on the bandwagon for their own monetary benefit perhaps. I am really not reading every single case that comes out or is told.

I am saying, something happened to me, too. And it was defintely nothing like having my butt touched or patted or someone stealing an unwanted kiss. It was a direct order from an instructor to allow him to do something and if I did not do said order, I could kiss my license goodbye. I was to be awarded a state license that I had attended 2 years of instruction including hands on work. I kissed the license goodbye. I was young and naive and embarrassed beyond belief and did not wish to repeat the threat to anyone, my mother included. So I let it go and just quit. No way to recover it, either, not unless I found another instructor and went through 2 more years of schooling, AGAIN, in order to get the license through another instructor. I didn't have time. I was getting married and leaving the area. End of career.
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby AlaRegularis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:53 am

I posted in this thread yesterday, but now I can't seem to find the post. Deleted by moderators?
 
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby sacko » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:22 am

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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Montavilla » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:02 am

Innuendoes wrote:No, I am not saying that at all. I do think some people have jumped on the bandwagon for their own monetary benefit perhaps. I am really not reading every single case that comes out or is told.

I am saying, something happened to me, too. And it was defintely nothing like having my butt touched or patted or someone stealing an unwanted kiss. It was a direct order from an instructor to allow him to do something and if I did not do said order, I could kiss my license goodbye. I was to be awarded a state license that I had attended 2 years of instruction including hands on work. I kissed the license goodbye. I was young and naive and embarrassed beyond belief and did not wish to repeat the threat to anyone, my mother included. So I let it go and just quit. No way to recover it, either, not unless I found another instructor and went through 2 more years of schooling, AGAIN, in order to get the license through another instructor. I didn't have time. I was getting married and leaving the area. End of career.


That's terrible. That's exactly the sort of thing that many women have had to endure, and why there is such pent-up rage behind the MeToo hashtag.
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby JLP » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:03 am

AlaRegularis wrote:I posted in this thread yesterday, but now I can't seem to find the post. Deleted by moderators?


It was.
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby sacko » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:40 am

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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:46 am

sacko wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:No, I am not saying that at all. I do think some people have jumped on the bandwagon for their own monetary benefit perhaps. I am really not reading every single case that comes out or is told.

I am saying, something happened to me, too. And it was defintely nothing like having my butt touched or patted or someone stealing an unwanted kiss. It was a direct order from an instructor to allow him to do something and if I did not do said order, I could kiss my license goodbye. I was to be awarded a state license that I had attended 2 years of instruction including hands on work. I kissed the license goodbye. I was young and naive and embarrassed beyond belief and did not wish to repeat the threat to anyone, my mother included. So I let it go and just quit. No way to recover it, either, not unless I found another instructor and went through 2 more years of schooling, AGAIN, in order to get the license through another instructor. I didn't have time. I was getting married and leaving the area. End of career.


that's terrible, Inny. these are the kind of men that need to be exposed


The deal was I pose nude from the waist up and he took as many pix as he wanted. He was already drooling and leching all over me every time I saw him which gave me the creeps, bad. He had a heart condition that killed him shortly after I left the area, too. And old enough to be my father. Old bastard. I knew his wife, too. She made me home made lunches, often. Sticky situation to be in plus my then fiance, didn't even care that he had demanded it. So I didn't get my license and wound up getting about 2.50 cents per hour for the work I did and I worked damn hard. I prided myself in doing the very best job I could do. Damn old bastard. Other than with him, I would have had to go away to school for what I was doing and stay for 2 years.
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby icy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:02 am

I'm so sorry that happened to you,Inny.

I personally feel #MeToo was and still is a powerful message. It has opened so many discussions that I feel is very important.
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby Roger » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:08 am

sacko wrote:i'm warier about the shift in acceptance of flirting tactics and our sexual lifestyle.

woman are accusing men, because a men has dumped them after a one night stand, 20 years ago. they are accusing them, because they had a one night stand and they regret it afterwards. why? i dont know. they regret it because a one night stand makes them feel like whores? (which, let it be clear; they certainly are NOT). but a woman's mind is very complex. anyway; all these complexities can hardly be called sexual assault nor are the men involved sexual predators.

These women aren't lying, they are exaggerating. they are missing the point on what sexual assault really is, what it should be.

If men are going to be fired and jailed, because a woman regrets a one night stand after the facts, then i fear for the growth of our world population (well, fear is maybe a bit much. frankly i dont give a fuck)

this was once a funny scene in a mediocre action movie, but the way things are going, this may become reality sooner than later.


I have mixed feelings about that kind of fear.

Part of me suspects it’s actually very rare, and us men like to talk about it being common to disempower women from reporting crimes.

But then on the other hand, I’ve been told directly of cases when women have cheated on their partners and then claimed they were raped to avoid being found out. I was told about this by a girl whilst essentially having this same conversation; and she told me that she knows of several people who have done this.

So I really don’t know. Part of me knows that conviction statistics for rape are horrifically low and women are often afraid to come forward, and that false allegations are surely very rare. But then my anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise.

I don’t know the solution. I think the fairest approach is to assume everyone is telling the truth unless there’s a conflict of stories or there’s a compelling reason not to.
 
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Re: trump is an asshole

Postby sacko » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 am

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