The New News Thread.

This is the place for topical debate and discussion about anything in the world (non-Queen related).

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:01 pm

Roger wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
Erm, because I want to. And because whenever I have seen one of their kind they always look hairy and very male - basically the opposite of feminine. Do I think they are all hairy? No. But those who I have been unfortunate enough to notice are invariably hairy, uncouth types. Just an observation and nothing more.


You know that the hairlessness that you associate with femininity isn’t actually natural, right?

Now don’t get me wrong, I prefer a well groomed woman. But I’m under no illusion that it’s a sign of being ‘feminine’. It’s got nothing to do with femininity, but rather to do with conforming to a standard that we have invented (and with some alarming possible bio-evolutionary explanations, but that’s another story).

I don’t find hairy women attractive. But if they want to remain unshaved, that should be their decision, and no man (or woman, for that matter) should try to take that choice away from them through bullying.


Depends how one defines femininity. But please let's not start arguing about words again - been there, done that, both yawned.

Oh, I totally agree that women should be as hairy as they wish. And I would never think of bullying anyone. What I have done is made an observation based on the evidence I have seen; your talk of bullying is both OTT and also coming from a very sensitive place - and I ain't knocking you for that (I think people should be allowed to be as sensitive as they wish)...I am just saying that we all see and interpret things differently.
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:05 pm

Roger wrote:How is it that in America, people are more afraid of Muslims and women than they are of men with legally bought, legally concealed, semi-automatic weapons?


Whoa...there's a massive generalisation if ever I saw one. To state that people in the USA are afraid of muslims because a percentage of the electorate voted Trump is just as bad as saying that UK residents ALL wanted to leave the EU.

I know we all make generalisations on a daily basis, but this is a big one.
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:07 pm

Roger wrote:
Okay. So kids are running around with guns, yet it’s women you and your son are scared of?


You do realise that people can have multiple fears, right?
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Roger » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:26 pm

You might be disappointed to know that I’m actually not particularly sensitive really. If the WhatsApp thread I have with my mates from uni ever got leaked, some of the casual racism, sexism, homophobia and other deeply offensive material would almost certainly condemn me to both unemployment and excommunication from polite society. Perhaps others can relate to that. There’s not really any excuse for it other than that we all know we’re joking and if any of us ever actually meant that sort of thing, the other 5 of us would very swiftly talk some sense into the aberrant one.

I’m in a fortunate position whereby I neither suffer from any kind of significant discrimination, nor particularly witness it. For that reason, I don’t particularly know what it’s like to fear discrimination, or to feel like a minority, but I’d imagine it’s very unpleasant.

So let’s imagine a woman doesn’t want to shave her legs over the winter. I can postpone shaving for months at a time without anyone batting an eyelid - indeed, around 50% of the people I know say I look better with a beard (and the other 50% say the opposite; it’s very frustrating). But if a girl wants to, she has to also consider the reaction it might elicit. The fact that musicalprostitute thinks she should be allowed to be as hairy as she likes is all well and good, but he also associates feminazism (which he says he hates) with hairiness. Does this girl really want to risk people thinking that sort of thing about her? So she still has the choice to do what she wants, but that choice has been compromised by the prejudices of others.

I remember there was a bit of an uproar over Christmas, when Lewis Hamilton posted a video of his ~3-4 year old nephew wearing a princess dress on Christmas Day. Hamilton filmed himself berating him, saying that boys don’t wear dresses. At first, I thought it was a big fuss over nothing. The kid didn’t seem distressed, and Hamilton knows his nephew far better than any of us do. But that’s not really the point. The kid was 3 or 4. He has no concept of his own sexuality and not even a particularly strong sense of his own gender. Why he wanted a princess dress for Christmas I don’t know - that’s up to him. I know I asked for a Beauty and the Beast ‘doll’ (it was more like an action figure really) when I was 6/7. Anyway. Let’s imagine that 15 years from now, Hamilton’s nephew turns out to be gay, or even (shock, horror) transgender. His decision to ‘come out’ will be affected by the fact that his famous uncle thinks that boys shouldn’t wear dresses; a message he made abundantly and publicly clear from a young age. And when I thought about it in those terms, I realised just why Hamilton was so wrong to do what he did.

So apply that to the hairy feminazis. Conflating hairiness with extreme feminism disempowers those who might just be ‘moderate feminists’ from making choices. They might fear being labelled as ‘feminazi’ and might therefore tone down their behaviour, and in doing so, conform to the patriarchal society. I don’t want to be called a Nazi, so I’d best do as I’m told.

And THAT is why ‘feminazi’ is so damaging.
Last edited by Roger on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
Roger
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:15 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Roger » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:27 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Roger wrote:How is it that in America, people are more afraid of Muslims and women than they are of men with legally bought, legally concealed, semi-automatic weapons?


Whoa...there's a massive generalisation if ever I saw one. To state that people in the USA are afraid of muslims because a percentage of the electorate voted Trump is just as bad as saying that UK residents ALL wanted to leave the EU.

I know we all make generalisations on a daily basis, but this is a big one.


Sorry, where did I mention Trump?
 
Roger
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:15 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:39 pm

Roger wrote:You might be disappointed to know that I’m actually not particularly sensitive really. If the WhatsApp thread I have with my mates from uni ever got leaked, some of the casual racism, sexism, homophobia and other deeply offensive material would almost certainly condemn me to both unemployment and excommunication from polite society. Perhaps others can relate to that. There’s not really any excuse for it other than that we all know we’re joking and if any of us ever actually meant that sort of thing, the other 5 of us would very swiftly talk some sense into the aberrant one.

I’m in a fortunate position whereby I neither suffer from any kind of significant discrimination, nor particularly witness it. For that reason, I don’t infinitely know what it’s like to fear discrimination, or to feel like a minority, but I’d imagine it’s very unpleasant.

So let’s imagine a woman doesn’t want to shave her legs over the winter. I can postpone shaving for months at a time without anyone batting an eyelid - indeed, around 50% of the people I know say I look better with a beard (and the other 50% say the opposite; it’s very frustrating). But if a girl wants to, she has to also consider the reaction it might elicit. The fact that musicalprostitute thinks she should be allowed to be as hairy as she likes is all well and good, but he also associates feminazism (which he says he hates) with hairiness. Does this girl really want to risk people thinking that sort of thing about her? So she still has the choice to do what she wants, but that choice has been compromised by the prejudices of others.

I remember there was a bit of an uproar over Christmas, when Lewis Hamilton posted a video of his ~3-4 year old nephew wearing a princess dress on Christmas Day. Hamilton filmed himself berating him, saying that boys don’t wear dresses. At first, I thought it was a big fuss over nothing. The kid didn’t seem distressed, and Hamilton knows his nephew far better than any of us do. But that’s not really the point. The kid was 3 or 4. He has no concept of his own sexuality and not even a particularly strong sense of his own gender. Why he wanted a princess dress for Christmas I don’t know - that’s up to him. I know I asked for a Beauty and the Beast ‘doll’ (it was more like an action figure really) when I was 6/7. Anyway. Let’s imagine that 15 years from now, Hamilton’s nephew turns out to be gay, or even (shock, horror) transgender. His decision to ‘come out’ will be affected by the fact that his famous uncle thinks that boys shouldn’t wear dresses; a message he made abundantly and publicly clear from a young age. And when I thought about it in those terms, I realised just why Hamilton was so wrong to do what he did.

So apply that to the hairy feminazis. Conflating hairiness with extreme feminism disempowers those who might just be ‘moderate feminists’ from making choices. They might fear being labelled as ‘feminazi’ and might therefore tone down their behaviour, and in doing so, conform to the patriarchal society. I don’t want to be called a Nazi, so I’d best do as I’m told.

And THAT is why ‘feminazi’ is so damaging.


I do not associate extreme feminists with hairiness; I stated that those I had the misfortune to come across were hairy - and I went even further (as I knew how you would twist my words) and stated that, of course, I did not think all extreme feminists were hairy.

I personally do not think that those same women you talk about who are moderate feminists are so weak as to conform to patriachal society simply because they would not want to be labelled a feminazi. Also, those same women would read what I really wrote - feminists are great and I have nothing but respect for them...it is the extremists who are the trouble (and a moderate feminist would surely agree that women who wish death on individuals because they are the opposite sex are as bad - if not worse - as those misoynistic, sexist men who believe that women are inferior).
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:40 pm

Roger wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
Whoa...there's a massive generalisation if ever I saw one. To state that people in the USA are afraid of muslims because a percentage of the electorate voted Trump is just as bad as saying that UK residents ALL wanted to leave the EU.

I know we all make generalisations on a daily basis, but this is a big one.


Sorry, where did I mention Trump?


So if you are not basing your original statement on the fact that Trump was voted in, what are you basing it on? And surely you agree that you made a horrible generalisation?
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Roger » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:45 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Roger wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
Whoa...there's a massive generalisation if ever I saw one. To state that people in the USA are afraid of muslims because a percentage of the electorate voted Trump is just as bad as saying that UK residents ALL wanted to leave the EU.

I know we all make generalisations on a daily basis, but this is a big one.


Sorry, where did I mention Trump?


So if you are not basing your original statement on the fact that Trump was voted in, what are you basing it on? And surely you agree that you made a horrible generalisation?


I said ‘people’. I did not say ‘all people’. It’s well documented that there is a lot of fear of Islam in America, going back (quite understandably) to 9/11.

I get it. People are afraid of scary things. Of course they are. Snakes, sharks, earthquakes, AIDS, nuclear power. Muslims post 9/11, sure. Women, because apparently some of them want to kill all men...um, okay, maybe I guess. So where’s the fear of men with guns? They kill far more people than all the other examples I’ve given.
 
Roger
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:15 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Roger » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:52 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:I personally do not think that those same women you talk about who are moderate feminists are so weak as to conform to patriachal society simply because they would not want to be labelled a feminazi. Also, those same women would read what I really wrote - feminists are great and I have nothing but respect for them...it is the extremists who are the trouble (and a moderate feminist would surely agree that women who wish death on individuals because they are the opposite sex are as bad - if not worse - as those misoynistic, sexist men who believe that women are inferior).


I think you’re underestimating the power of media, stigma and society. Why do you think ‘coming out of the closet’ is even a thing any more? People are still scared, because there is still prejudice. Women are scared to ask for equality because they fear being ostracised, not just by men but even by other women. They’re scared to report sexual assault because they might not be believed, and might have their personal lives forensically examined and be blamed for the worst thing that ever happened to them. They’re scared to identify as feminist, because they might be compared to 1940s war criminals.

And when they eventually do pluck up the considerable amount of courage required to risk everything, they’ll be challenged on why it took them so long, and people like you will call them “weak”.
 
Roger
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:15 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:08 pm

Roger wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
So if you are not basing your original statement on the fact that Trump was voted in, what are you basing it on? And surely you agree that you made a horrible generalisation?


I said ‘people’. I did not say ‘all people’. It’s well documented that there is a lot of fear of Islam in America, going back (quite understandably) to 9/11.

I get it. People are afraid of scary things. Of course they are. Snakes, sharks, earthquakes, AIDS, nuclear power. Muslims post 9/11, sure. Women, because apparently some of them want to kill all men...um, okay, maybe I guess. So where’s the fear of men with guns? They kill far more people than all the other examples I’ve given.


OK - so using your own logic - it is absolutely fine to generalise as long as one does not specify the words 'all people'.

'So, why is it in South Africa, for example, men rape babies because they believe they can cure their AIDS that way?' Do you not find this sentence offensive? Now, it is a fact that there are thousands of documented cases of babies being raped in SA because some of the people/men believe the only way to cure AIDS is through sex with a virgin; obviously it is only a small percentage of people - but the above sentence certainly hints at otherwise in my eyes.
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:09 pm

Roger wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:I personally do not think that those same women you talk about who are moderate feminists are so weak as to conform to patriachal society simply because they would not want to be labelled a feminazi. Also, those same women would read what I really wrote - feminists are great and I have nothing but respect for them...it is the extremists who are the trouble (and a moderate feminist would surely agree that women who wish death on individuals because they are the opposite sex are as bad - if not worse - as those misoynistic, sexist men who believe that women are inferior).


I think you’re underestimating the power of media, stigma and society. Why do you think ‘coming out of the closet’ is even a thing any more? People are still scared, because there is still prejudice. Women are scared to ask for equality because they fear being ostracised, not just by men but even by other women. They’re scared to report sexual assault because they might not be believed, and might have their personal lives forensically examined and be blamed for the worst thing that ever happened to them. They’re scared to identify as feminist, because they might be compared to 1940s war criminals.

And when they eventually do pluck up the considerable amount of courage required to risk everything, they’ll be challenged on why it took them so long, and people like you will call them “weak”.


Why would a person like me call them weak? People like me - i.e. the opposite of people like you - would never say such things. Stop, for the last time, putting words in my mouth.
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby CNB » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:30 pm

Did I hear correctly that some kind of a bill was passed by our congress in the past year allowing mentally ill people access to firearms? This 19-year-old was able to legally purchase an AR-15 assault rifle.

Senator Dianne Feinstein has a bill in the Senate to ban those rifles again like they were for 10 years from 1994 to 2004 but was not renewed in 2004.

Maybe the politicians who do not want to ban these deadly weapons again should be shown the grossest autopsy photos available of the innocent teen-age victims from yesterday’s tragedy as well as the 20 little 6-year-olds from Sandy Hook.
IT'S LATE !!!!!
WHO WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER !!!!!
SPREAD YOUR WINGS !!!!!
 
CNB
Somebody To Love
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 9230
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:54 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 517 times
Been thanked: 415 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby JLP » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:37 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Roger wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
So if you are not basing your original statement on the fact that Trump was voted in, what are you basing it on? And surely you agree that you made a horrible generalisation?


I said ‘people’. I did not say ‘all people’. It’s well documented that there is a lot of fear of Islam in America, going back (quite understandably) to 9/11.

I get it. People are afraid of scary things. Of course they are. Snakes, sharks, earthquakes, AIDS, nuclear power. Muslims post 9/11, sure. Women, because apparently some of them want to kill all men...um, okay, maybe I guess. So where’s the fear of men with guns? They kill far more people than all the other examples I’ve given.


OK - so using your own logic - it is absolutely fine to generalise as long as one does not specify the words 'all people'.

'So, why is it in South Africa, for example, men rape babies because they believe they can cure their AIDS that way?' Do you not find this sentence offensive? Now, it is a fact that there are thousands of documented cases of babies being raped in SA because some of the people/men believe the only way to cure AIDS is through sex with a virgin; obviously it is only a small percentage of people - but the above sentence certainly hints at otherwise in my eyes.



People do generalise though and, in my opinion, that is wrong and leads to all sorts of wrongs. I sort of understand why people do it. There is that much bull shit out there in cyberspace and mainstream media, people find it difficult to sort out the truth from the lies.

Labels get attributed to whole groups of people and before too long it becomes accepted as the norm. Like when someone recently said o here about getting nervous around certain people with back packs on. Society has become increasingly bombarded with information and that ain't necessarily a good thing.
Come on you Tigers.
 
JLP
Site Admin
 
User avatar

 

Growing old disgracefully

      
 
Posts: 11521
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:33 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 425 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby JLP » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:40 pm

CNB wrote:Did I hear correctly that some kind of a bill was passed by our congress in the past year allowing mentally ill people access to firearms? This 19-year-old was able to legally purchase an AR-15 assault rifle.

Senator Dianne Feinstein has a bill in the Senate to ban those rifles again like they were for 10 years from 1994 to 2004 but was not renewed in 2004.

Maybe the politicians who do not want to ban these deadly weapons again should be shown the grossest autopsy photos available of the innocent teen-age victims from yesterday’s tragedy as well as the 20 little 6-year-olds from Sandy Hook.


Why not do a proper search for that story and come back with facts and proof rather than something you most likely was on Twitter of Facebook that could have been written by a 16 year old kid with a lot of time this hands.
Come on you Tigers.
 
JLP
Site Admin
 
User avatar

 

Growing old disgracefully

      
 
Posts: 11521
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:33 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 425 times

Re: The New News Thread.

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:44 pm

JLP wrote:

People do generalise though and, in my opinion, that is wrong and leads to all sorts of wrongs. I sort of understand why people do it. There is that much bull shit out there in cyberspace and mainstream media, people find it difficult to sort out the truth from the lies.

Labels get attributed to whole groups of people and before too long it becomes accepted as the norm. Like when someone recently said o here about getting nervous around certain people with back packs on. Society has become increasingly bombarded with information and that ain't necessarily a good thing.


I agree. I think we all generalise, to a degree - maybe it is just human nature.

What's the old saying? A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing? We get fed these snippets of doom and gloom and front page scare stories on a daily basis (as the papers know that their biggest seller is fear); it's no wonder some of it seeps in.
 
musicalprostitute
Don't Stop Me Now
 
User avatar

 

Defend yourself, I bring catastrophe

      
 
Posts: 4417
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:52 am
Location: Essex and Cardiff.
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 471 times

PreviousNext

Return to Views Of The World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests