The New News Thread.

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:16 am

couple of days ago I saw in the news a syrian medical worker being interviewed, and he claimed he hadn't seen a single chemical attack victim

so that's that. someone is lying here. As if it wasn't obvious that people lie all the fucking time anyway :roll:
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:39 am

action wrote:couple of days ago I saw in the news a syrian medical worker being interviewed, and he claimed he hadn't seen a single chemical attack victim

so that's that. someone is lying here. As if it wasn't obvious that people lie all the fucking time anyway :roll:


Speaking of doctors, a cardiologist saw a photo of Syrian victims and said the ECG electrode pads were in the wrong position and wouldn’t work. This generated lots of sexual excitement amongst the conspiracy theorists, but then dozens more doctors, nurses, medical students, paramedics and basically anyone who ever uses an ECG weighed in and called bullshit, and the cardiologist backed down.

https://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-crisi ... cal-attack
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Innuendoes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:33 am

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:couple of days ago I saw in the news a syrian medical worker being interviewed, and he claimed he hadn't seen a single chemical attack victim

so that's that. someone is lying here. As if it wasn't obvious that people lie all the fucking time anyway :roll:


Speaking of doctors, a cardiologist saw a photo of Syrian victims and said the ECG electrode pads were in the wrong position and wouldn’t work. This generated lots of sexual excitement amongst the conspiracy theorists, but then dozens more doctors, nurses, medical students, paramedics and basically anyone who ever uses an ECG weighed in and called bullshit, and the cardiologist backed down.

https://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-crisi ... cal-attack


Probably backed down after the death threats...
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:58 am

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:couple of days ago I saw in the news a syrian medical worker being interviewed, and he claimed he hadn't seen a single chemical attack victim

so that's that. someone is lying here. As if it wasn't obvious that people lie all the fucking time anyway :roll:


Speaking of doctors, a cardiologist saw a photo of Syrian victims and said the ECG electrode pads were in the wrong position and wouldn’t work. This generated lots of sexual excitement amongst the conspiracy theorists, but then dozens more doctors, nurses, medical students, paramedics and basically anyone who ever uses an ECG weighed in and called bullshit, and the cardiologist backed down.

https://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-crisi ... cal-attack


nice.

it all boils down to my previous statement, and that's that we can't be sure about a damn thing. As it so happens, this belief is being reinforced by everything I see in the media, time and time again.

I actually can't believe there are people out there, sheep, that believe everything the media says. It's all a bit dumb really. Different news channels have different political backgrounds and often contradict each other. So I'm making "my own" news. Carefully going over everything, and then make my own opinion.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:02 am

Innuendoes wrote:
Elessar wrote:
action wrote:couple of days ago I saw in the news a syrian medical worker being interviewed, and he claimed he hadn't seen a single chemical attack victim

so that's that. someone is lying here. As if it wasn't obvious that people lie all the fucking time anyway :roll:


Speaking of doctors, a cardiologist saw a photo of Syrian victims and said the ECG electrode pads were in the wrong position and wouldn’t work. This generated lots of sexual excitement amongst the conspiracy theorists, but then dozens more doctors, nurses, medical students, paramedics and basically anyone who ever uses an ECG weighed in and called bullshit, and the cardiologist backed down.

https://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-crisi ... cal-attack


Probably backed down after the death threats...


:lol:

You’re totally unhinged.

This isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of fact, and death threats make no difference to facts. If there’s still any doubt as to whether or not those electrodes were appropriately placed, just replicate that setup and see if it works. Spoiler alert: It does. Not my opinion but objective fact.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby bigV » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:41 am

Can we just call bullshit on this entire war? Seriously. Ordinary Americans are against this war, as are ordinary Russians, ordinary Europeans, not to mention the Syrians. I even think that Trump doesn't want it. The only people who want this war are the government of Israel and the military-industrial complex.

V.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:22 am

bigV wrote:Can we just call bullshit on this entire war? Seriously. Ordinary Americans are against this war, as are ordinary Russians, ordinary Europeans, not to mention the Syrians. I even think that Trump doesn't want it. The only people who want this war are the government of Israel and the military-industrial complex.

V.


Yeah, there are lots of reasons why this military intervention is potentially a bad idea. What I object to is the offensive conspiratorial nonsense that accuses children of faking injury for political gain. That to me is as despicable as the claims that the 17 year old kids campaigning for gun control are lying about the shooting that took place. Funnily enough, it’s the same conspiracy theorists every time.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Kes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:35 am

My tuppence worth is that there's something a bit "mouse" about the whole Assad business.

If, and I use that word advisedly, the Russians did this business in Salisbury, with hi-tech Novachek nerve agent, and they're up Assad's arse to the hilt, then what the hell is anyone doing using chlorine gas, that you could probably knock up in a garage? The Germans used to unintentionally make the stuff in their U-boats, when sea water got in contact with the submarine's batteries, so all you really need is table salt, and a mild acid.

Surely, they'd be using something a little bit more sophisticated, wouldn't they?

In the case of Salisbury. The victims were Russian defectors. The nerve agent is Russian designed. Who else has a motive to do them in? You'll never find a "smoking bullet" to provide a 100% gaurantee of who did it, as whoever did do it, patently isn't stupid enough to leave many clues, but all the road signs are pointing to Moscow, aren't they?
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:43 am

Why use something super expensive designed for targeted assassinations when the old fashioned stuff makes the same point just as well? In fact, the symptoms of a chlorine attack are probably more visually striking than SLUDGE syndrome, with the slightly macabre irony of being unleashed on the orders of an ophthalmologist.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:44 am

Elessar wrote:
bigV wrote:Can we just call bullshit on this entire war? Seriously. Ordinary Americans are against this war, as are ordinary Russians, ordinary Europeans, not to mention the Syrians. I even think that Trump doesn't want it. The only people who want this war are the government of Israel and the military-industrial complex.

V.


Yeah, there are lots of reasons why this military intervention is potentially a bad idea. What I object to is the offensive conspiratorial nonsense that accuses children of faking injury for political gain. That to me is as despicable as the claims that the 17 year old kids campaigning for gun control are lying about the shooting that took place. Funnily enough, it’s the same conspiracy theorists every time.


as far as I know, no one on here wants political gain.

nothing is gained, or even wanted to be gained, by merely being sceptic. Scepticism, that is absolutely warranted considering the proven track record of our western governments, who have lied time and time again and killing millions of people in the process.

The world is run by money. Money turns people into lying assholes.

There is nothing offensive about anything that is being said in this thread. The real offence are the crimes and lies against innocent people (and yes, many children have suffered because of it), time and time again. "It's hard to believe the size of the crime."
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Kes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:53 am

Elessar wrote:Why use something super expensive designed for targeted assassinations when the old fashioned stuff makes the same point just as well? In fact, the symptoms of a chlorine attack are probably more visually striking than SLUDGE syndrome, with the slightly macabre irony of being unleashed on the orders of an ophthalmologist.


If the intention is to kill the rebels, and the rebels are hiding in amongst the ordinary people, then you get a situation like what seems to be happening. However, the rebels might have respirators and NBC suits. Your average Syrian six year old hasn't, so they are automatically disadvantaged.

The reason you'd use something slightly more sophisticated, is to kill everyone in the area, carte blanche, not just those with little or no ability to defend themselves from such an attack.

When you've done all the drills with suits, fuller's earth, NAPS tablets, atropine javelins, and all that bollocks, it doesn't make you an expert, but at least you know a little about what you're dealing with.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Kes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:05 am

In fact, what troubles me, is that during the seventies, eighties and nineties, when this shit was a bit more of a realistic threat than it is now, that more people weren't given the training and education on it.

You can bet per head of population, Soviet people had a better handle on it.

Had people been fully briefed on who was developing what, then people's attitudes to the threat, and how not having deterrents could be a bad thing, might be a little different than it currently is.

All the time you have some **** in this world, developing nasty shit, you need to have something in waiting to deter them from using it. It's a harsh fact. I'd love a nuclear free world, and no need for monkey suits and gas masks, but we're not going to get there in this lifetime, or the next!

Porton Down exists for one reason, and one reason only. To keep on top of who is developing what, and to TRY and come up with methods of dealing with it. From gases to laboratory designed diseases, from nuclear bombs to blister agents. They produce no more of any given substance, than they need to test for countermeasures for that substance. No stockpiles, and absolutely no view to producing a weapon to use on anyone else.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:14 am

Kes wrote:
Elessar wrote:Why use something super expensive designed for targeted assassinations when the old fashioned stuff makes the same point just as well? In fact, the symptoms of a chlorine attack are probably more visually striking than SLUDGE syndrome, with the slightly macabre irony of being unleashed on the orders of an ophthalmologist.


If the intention is to kill the rebels, and the rebels are hiding in amongst the ordinary people, then you get a situation like what seems to be happening. However, the rebels might have respirators and NBC suits. Your average Syrian six year old hasn't, so they are automatically disadvantaged.

The reason you'd use something slightly more sophisticated, is to kill everyone in the area, carte blanche, not just those with little or no ability to defend themselves from such an attack.

When you've done all the drills with suits, fuller's earth, NAPS tablets, atropine javelins, and all that bollocks, it doesn't make you an expert, but at least you know a little about what you're dealing with.


If the intention is to kill rebels, yes.

What if the intention is to scare them into submission?
Then, I would suggest, the technique absolutely IS to target the most vulnerable. The strong ones are still useful commodities if they can be forced into submission.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:22 am

action wrote:as far as I know, no one on here wants political gain.

nothing is gained, or even wanted to be gained, by merely being sceptic. Scepticism, that is absolutely warranted considering the proven track record of our western governments, who have lied time and time again and killing millions of people in the process.

The world is run by money. Money turns people into lying assholes.

There is nothing offensive about anything that is being said in this thread. The real offence are the crimes and lies against innocent people (and yes, many children have suffered because of it), time and time again. "It's hard to believe the size of the crime."


Being sceptical is fine, but I think it takes a special kind of heartlessness to look at images of dying children and think "Nah, they're faking it".

By all means doubt the western narrative. Say someone else did it. But if we've become so desensitised to human suffering that when we look at crying babies our first instinct is to presume it's fake, then what have we become?

You can create a conspiracy theory to implicate whoever you like really. In fact, I find the Clinton/Obama/Soros conspiracy one of the hardest to formulate. What would these people stand to gain? And what resources do they have to fake or stage an attack in one of the most dangerous parts of the world?

Here's a narrative. It's not one I necessarily believe, but there are no big logical leaps of faith.
Assad's alleged attack took place a week or so after Trump announced a de-escalation of military involvement in Syria, as part of his isolationist policy. If we agree that Assad is in Putin's pocket, it's reasonable to assume that he wouldn't use chemical weapons without Putin's permission. If Putin ordered the attack - why? Well, it draws America back in. Why is that good? Because as long as there's conflict in Syria, they have a refugee crisis, and they pile into Germany, destabilising an EU already destabilised by recent war-related immigration and the subsequent populist uprisings and of course the Brexit vote. In fact, you could even take the conspiracy a step further. If Trump genuinely is in league with Putin, attacking Syria is exactly what both sides would want: For Putin, it keeps the war in Syria going, and for Trump, it looks like he's standing up to Russia, casting doubt on the claims that he's a Russian puppet. If that is the case, both Assad's attack and Trump's response were under direct orders from Putin.

Do I believe that narrative? Not particularly, no. But it certainly makes a lot of sense. And probably more sense than the theory that an illuminati cabal lead by Obama, Clinton, Soros and the fucking tooth fairy faked it all.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Kes » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:27 am

Elessar wrote:
If the intention is to kill rebels, yes.

What if the intention is to scare them into submission?
Then, I would suggest, the technique absolutely IS to target the most vulnerable. The strong ones are still useful commodities if they can be forced into submission.


I think you've got a couple of million Syrians, who are still a future threat to the Assad regime, who no longer live in Syria. He isn't exactly endearing himself to them, is he?
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