The New News Thread.

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Kes » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:18 am

Back in the seventies, we had a big "religious" argument about Sikh's wearing turbans on motorbikes. A law had just been passed about the mandatory wearing of crash helmets, and an element who didn't want to wear them, brought this to the front, that making a Sikh wear a crash helmet was infringing his rights to practise his religion.

Simple answer, if you don't want to wear a crash helmet, buy a fucking car.

We live in a society where if you're a woman, and you want to go to Saudi Arabia, don't pack a bikini. No-one's shouting about THAT, because it's a given. When in Rome, drive like an Italian. Full face covering is not part of our culture in the West, so don't try to mould our society to someone else's, unless there is a level of compromise on the other side. Simples!
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Spook2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:19 am

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:Women are NOT treated equally by many, many men. See all these women right movements, they exist for a reason.


They’re not being treated equally by you. Would you have an issue with a man wearing a ski mask?



in a bank YES I bleedin well would
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:19 am

Elessar wrote:Whereas you haven't even provided anecdotal evidence, just speculation.


I don't provide evidence, because I don't have to. it's the cautionary principle. for further reading, see previous post.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Spook2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:20 am

Kes wrote:Back in the seventies, we had a big "religious" argument about Sikh's wearing turbans on motorbikes. A law had just been passed about the mandatory wearing of crash helmets, and an element who didn't want to wear them, brought this to the front, that making a Sikh wear a crash helmet was infringing his rights to practise his religion.

Simple answer, if you don't want to wear a crash helmet, buy a fucking car.

We live in a society where if you're a woman, and you want to go to Saudi Arabia, don't pack a bikini. No-one's shouting about THAT, because it's a given. When in Rome, drive like an Iralian. Full face covering is not part of our culture in the West, so don't try to mould our society to someone else's, unless there is a level of compromise on the other side. Simples!



spot on
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:21 am

Feminism is not about Fatima doing what Ahmed wants her to do, or what action wants her to do, or what action thinks Ahmed won't let her do; it's about Fatima doing what Fatima wants to do without any interference from Ahmed or action.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:21 am

Spook2 wrote:
Elessar wrote:
action wrote:Women are NOT treated equally by many, many men. See all these women right movements, they exist for a reason.


They’re not being treated equally by you. Would you have an issue with a man wearing a ski mask?



in a bank YES I bleedin well would


I'd also have an issue with someone wearing a bikini in a bank. What's your point?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:22 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Whereas you haven't even provided anecdotal evidence, just speculation.


I don't provide evidence, because I don't have to. it's the cautionary principle. for further reading, see previous post.


Why do you want to assume that women are less capable of exercising free will than men are?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:23 am

Elessar wrote:Feminism is not about Fatima doing what Ahmed wants her to do, or what action wants her to do, or what action thinks Ahmed won't let her do; it's about Fatima doing what Fatima wants to do without any interference from Ahmed or action.


this would be true, in a universe with different laws of nature

but sadly, fatima is sorely oppressed by ahmed, and has been for centuries. They don't let them even drive a fucking car. When a muslim country lets women drive a car, it's world news.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:25 am

Kes wrote:Back in the seventies, we had a big "religious" argument about Sikh's wearing turbans on motorbikes. A law had just been passed about the mandatory wearing of crash helmets, and an element who didn't want to wear them, brought this to the front, that making a Sikh wear a crash helmet was infringing his rights to practise his religion.

Simple answer, if you don't want to wear a crash helmet, buy a fucking car.

We live in a society where if you're a woman, and you want to go to Saudi Arabia, don't pack a bikini. No-one's shouting about THAT, because it's a given. When in Rome, drive like an Iralian. Full face covering is not part of our culture in the West, so don't try to mould our society to someone else's, unless there is a level of compromise on the other side. Simples!


Saudi Arabia is an oppressive, dictatorial regime. The UK is not. If you want to cover your face in the UK, you can. Forcing someone to show their face is just as oppressive as forcing someone to cover it (with obvious security-related caveats).
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:26 am

Elessar wrote:Saudi Arabia is an oppressive, dictatorial regime.


oppressive to women?
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:28 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Feminism is not about Fatima doing what Ahmed wants her to do, or what action wants her to do, or what action thinks Ahmed won't let her do; it's about Fatima doing what Fatima wants to do without any interference from Ahmed or action.


this would be true, in a universe with different laws of nature

but sadly, fatima is sorely oppressed by ahmed, and has been for centuries. They don't let them even drive a fucking car. When a muslim country lets women drive a car, it's world news.


When a Muslim country lets women drive a car, yes. As in Saudi Arabia, the only Muslim country that until recently didn't allow women to drive. Women living in Morocco and Indonesia and Iran and Lebanon shouldn't have to answer to your concerns about women's rights in Saudi Arabia.

SOME Muslim women are oppressed. SOME are forced to wear a burkha.

Some are not oppressed. Some want to wear the burka. Some want to wear the burkha even though they live in a country where most people don't wear burkhas, and where their choice to wear one is criticised and mocked.

There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. Some are oppressed. Some are not. The ones who are not oppressed don't need you to tell them that they're being oppressed, and that you're going to save them by telling them that they're not allowed to wear an item of clothing that they choose to wear as a symbol of their faith.
Last edited by Elessar on Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:29 am

Elessar wrote:Saudi Arabia is an oppressive, dictatorial regime. The UK is not. If you want to cover your face in the UK, you can. Forcing someone to show their face is just as oppressive as forcing someone to cover it (with obvious security-related caveats).


Elessar wrote:Feminism is not about Fatima doing what Ahmed wants her to do, or what action wants her to do, or what action thinks Ahmed won't let her do; it's about Fatima doing what Fatima wants to do without any interference from Ahmed or action.


so which one is it? please pick one of these conflicting statements, for good understanding. Hard to keep up sometimes.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:29 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Saudi Arabia is an oppressive, dictatorial regime.


oppressive to women?


Oppressive to many groups including women.

But hey, I spent my first few embryonic weeks there, so don't diss my homeland!
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:30 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Saudi Arabia is an oppressive, dictatorial regime. The UK is not. If you want to cover your face in the UK, you can. Forcing someone to show their face is just as oppressive as forcing someone to cover it (with obvious security-related caveats).


Elessar wrote:Feminism is not about Fatima doing what Ahmed wants her to do, or what action wants her to do, or what action thinks Ahmed won't let her do; it's about Fatima doing what Fatima wants to do without any interference from Ahmed or action.


so which one is it? please pick one of these conflicting statements, for good understanding. Hard to keep up sometimes.


Population of Saudi Arabia: 32 million
Worldwide Muslim population: 1.8 billion
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby JLP » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:31 am

action wrote:
JLP wrote:Fascinating stuff. Women's rights being defended whilst in another thread, same poster agrees with shutting them up. :lol:


pretty confident I'm at the right side of the argument on this one.

your lack of stance on the burqa speaks volumes.


My stance is simple, I don't care what someone else decides to wear. That is their choice, not mine.
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