The New News Thread.

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:47 am

Elessar wrote:I’m not granting her anything. She already has UK citizenship. She’s as British as I am. It’s against international la to render someone stateless, but apparently the government have found a loophole because she’s eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship.


before you boast "it's against international law", to take away the citizenship of an IS sympathiser, perhaps you should do some research first?

a simple google search would provide you the following article, with reference to the specific article in the UN convention that DOES allow states to take away the nationality of, for example, IS sympathisers

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... 17.1397503

Article 8 of the 1961 UN Convention allows for loss of citizenship followed by statelessness, among others, in situations where the citizen has shown allegiance toward another state or cases where he conducted himself in a manner seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the state.

UNHCR guidelines on the interpretation of the 1961 Convention define behavior that is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the state as threatening ‘the foundations and organization of the state’ in question (UNHCR 2014 UNHCR. 2014. Expert Meeting – (“Tunis Conclusions”).

seeing how IS has made it clear, time and time again, they want to overthrow our national government and install their wretched interpretation of islam, this is a school example of a threat to the foundations and organisation of the state.

but still that does not stop you, not only to claim that international law forbids it, you're also advocating for this IS sympathiser to receive your nationality!

when fighting for social justice goes bananas :roll:
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:51 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:I’m not granting her anything. She already has UK citizenship. She’s as British as I am. It’s against international la to render someone stateless, but apparently the government have found a loophole because she’s eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship.


before you boast "it's against international law", to take away the citizenship of an IS sympathiser, perhaps you should do some research first?

a simple google search would provide you the following article, with reference to the specific article in the UN convention that DOES allow states to take away the nationality of, for example, IS sympathisers


This man committed a terrorist attack on British soil:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42920929

Why was he not stripped of his citizenship and made stateless?


but still that does not stop you, not only to claim that international law forbids it, you're also advocating for this IS sympathiser to receive your nationality!


She ‘received’ British citizenship when she was born in the UK around 19 years ago. Was she an IS sympathiser back then, in the pre-9/11 days when she was a newborn?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:56 am

Why is this man still a British citizen?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:59 am

This man has dual Canadian-British citizenship.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46039145

Why has he not been stripped of his British citizenship?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:59 am

Elessar wrote:
This man committed a terrorist attack on British soil:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42920929

Why was he not stripped of his citizenship and made stateless?


I don't know. perhaps it's because of UK's extreme-left government? the UN convention gives states the tools to deny terrorist (sympathisers) entry to the country, and removal of their nationality. What are they waiting for?


Elessar wrote:She ‘received’ British citizenship when she was born in the UK around 19 years ago. Was she an IS sympathiser back then, in the pre-9/11 days when she was a newborn?


I don't know either. But she is, clearly, today. they can remove her british nationality, even if it means statelessness.

terrorists and their helpers don't belong here.

What the world needs is more terrorists
Like it needs a hole in the head
Your future is not safe at all
'til this disease is dead
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:02 am

This British man attempted to assassinate the president of the UK’s most important ally:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 17236.html

Why was he not stripped of his British citizenship?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:03 am

Elessar wrote:This British man attempted to assassinate the president of the UK’s most important ally:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 17236.html

Why was he not stripped of his British citizenship?


it's against international law
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:04 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:
This man committed a terrorist attack on British soil:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42920929

Why was he not stripped of his citizenship and made stateless?


I don't know. perhaps it's because of UK's extreme-left government? the UN convention gives states the tools to deny terrorist (sympathisers) entry to the country, and removal of their nationality. What are they waiting for?


Elessar wrote:She ‘received’ British citizenship when she was born in the UK around 19 years ago. Was she an IS sympathiser back then, in the pre-9/11 days when she was a newborn?


I don't know either. But she is, clearly, today. they can remove her british nationality, even if it means statelessness.

terrorists and their helpers don't belong here.

What the world needs is more terrorists
Like it needs a hole in the head
Your future is not safe at all
'til this disease is dead


Okay so you think all terrorists should be stripped of their citizenship. That’s fine, your views are consistent.

How do you explain the UK government’s stance, where it strips a British woman of Bangladeshi heritage of her citizenship, but not various other terrorists who are of ASNAC heritage?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:05 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:This British man attempted to assassinate the president of the UK’s most important ally:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 17236.html

Why was he not stripped of his British citizenship?


it's against international law


action wrote:Article 8 of the 1961 UN Convention allows for loss of citizenship followed by statelessness, among others, in situations where the citizen has shown allegiance toward another state or cases where he conducted himself in a manner seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the state.


You don’t think that attempting to assassinate the president of the UK’s most important ally is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the state?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:07 am

Elessar wrote:Okay so you think all terrorists should be stripped of their citizenship. That’s fine, your views are consistent.


well, thank you.

Elessar wrote:How do you explain the UK government’s stance, where it strips a British woman of Bangladeshi heritage of her citizenship, but not various other terrorists who are of ASNAC heritage?


I can not explain the dumb decisions of your government. I can only hope that common sense will prevail. that's what I'm fighting for. You might say I'm an SJW in that sense. I think that describes me pretty well. The fight for justice is never done.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:11 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Okay so you think all terrorists should be stripped of their citizenship. That’s fine, your views are consistent.


well, thank you.

Elessar wrote:How do you explain the UK government’s stance, where it strips a British woman of Bangladeshi heritage of her citizenship, but not various other terrorists who are of ASNAC heritage?


I can not explain the dumb decisions of your government. I can only hope that common sense will prevail. that's what I'm fighting for. You might say I'm an SJW in that sense. I think that describes me pretty well. The fight for justice is never done.


There are only two explanations, as far as I can tell:

1) There was no evidence to actually prosecute this ISIS woman, so instead the Home Secretary stripped her of her citizenship. In the other examples there was clear evidence of criminal behaviour so it was easier to lock them up.

2) Good old fashioned racism. We’ll keep the white terrorists (and the black ones, interestingly: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-25450555) but the brown ones can find somewhere else to live.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:12 am

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:
Elessar wrote:This British man attempted to assassinate the president of the UK’s most important ally:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 17236.html

Why was he not stripped of his British citizenship?


it's against international law


action wrote:Article 8 of the 1961 UN Convention allows for loss of citizenship followed by statelessness, among others, in situations where the citizen has shown allegiance toward another state or cases where he conducted himself in a manner seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the state.


You don’t think that attempting to assassinate the president of the UK’s most important ally is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the state?


you misunderstood the convention. obviously, the state referred to, is the state of nationality, or in legal language: the "domus litus". the convention does not allow to remove nationality because of a threat to "other" states. this is, because the foundation of this exception is the "souvereignity" of every state, to "protect their safety". But that does not extend to the interest of other states.

that's how the convention was conceived.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:15 am

action wrote:
you misunderstood the convention. obviously, the state referred to, is the state of nationality, or in legal language: the "domus litus". the convention does not allow to remove nationality because of a threat to "other" states. this is, because the foundation of this exception is the "souvereignity" of every state, to "protect their safety". But that does not extend to the interest of other states.

that's how the convention was conceived.


And you think the USA would be relaxed about the idea of the UK allowing one of its citizens to fly over to the USA and murder their president? Given the boy had researched his crime in advance, it would be a diplomatic disaster. Don’t you think that would be prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:17 am

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:
you misunderstood the convention. obviously, the state referred to, is the state of nationality, or in legal language: the "domus litus". the convention does not allow to remove nationality because of a threat to "other" states. this is, because the foundation of this exception is the "souvereignity" of every state, to "protect their safety". But that does not extend to the interest of other states.

that's how the convention was conceived.


And you think the USA would be relaxed about the idea of the UK allowing one of its citizens to fly over to the USA and murder their president? Given the boy had researched his crime in advance, it would be a diplomatic disaster. Don’t you think that would be prejudicial to the vital interests of the UK?


no, I dont think the USA would be fine with that. They can always try to convince the UN to update their convention, but until then: "dura lex, sed lex".

it would be an indirect threat to the UK's interests, but I dont think that ground would survive the judgment of the international court of justice
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:20 am

I’m sure you’re right re the boy who tried to kill Trump, but it’s interesting that we welcomed him back with open arms and it’s not even clear if he served the rest of his sentence, whereas the ISIS girl (who was 15 when she left) has been stripped of her only nationality.

Why was the Canadian-British dual national not stripped of his British citizenship?

It’s simple racism, it really is. Look, I think thieves should go to jail but if white thieves got 5 years and non-white thieves got 10 for the same crime, that would be racism! Even if we agreed that 10 years was appropriate, it’s still racism.

Strip them all of citizenship or strip none of them.
 
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