The New News Thread.

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:24 am

Elessar wrote:I’m sure you’re right re the boy who tried to kill Trump, but it’s interesting that we welcomed him back with open arms and it’s not even clear if he served the rest of his sentence, whereas the ISIS girl (who was 15 when she left) has been stripped of her only nationality.

Why was the Canadian-British dual national not stripped of his British citizenship?

It’s simple racism, it really is. Look, I think thieves should go to jail but if white thieves got 5 years and non-white thieves got 10, that would be racism! Even if we agreed that 10 years was appropriate, it’s still racism.

Strip them all of citizenship or strip none of them.


well, I don't know about "welcoming him back with open arms", tbh that sounds a bit caricatural. But obviously, terrorists of any skin color don't belong here. So our "jihadi jack" can piss off back from whence he came.

I'm sure there is a lot of racism in the world, even within certain governments.

but this girl, to this day, speaks out her allegiance to ISIS. that is my main concern here. I'm pretty sure I'm at the good side of history here
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:32 am

It must surely be a concern that one’s citizenship is conditional on doing what the country expects of you. Of course citizens know that if they break the law they might go to jail, but now it appears that if they do something the government doesn’t like (even if there’s no evidence of actually breaking the law), they could have their citizenship removed, even if they don’t have a backup citizenship.

The UK has form in this department. The Windrush scandal involved dozens of people who have lived in the UK for decades being sent to countries they haven’t been to since childhood. Some have died since returning: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

And it’s not just the UK. Australia has been sending Kiwis back to New Zealand, many of whom have not been there since childhood and have no friends or family there:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-ne ... tation-row

I don’t know how this can possibly be right.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:33 am

Elessar wrote:It must surely be a concern that one’s citizenship is conditional on doing what the country expects of you. Of course citizens know that if they break the law they might go to jail, but now it appears that if they do something the government doesn’t like (even if there’s no evidence of actually breaking the law), they could have their citizenship removed, even if they don’t have a backup citizenship.

The UK has form in this department. The Windrush scandal involved dozens of people who have lived in the UK for decades being sent to countries they haven’t been to since childhood. Some have died since returning: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

And it’s not just the UK. Australia has been sending Kiwis back to New Zealand, many of whom have not been there since childhood and have no friends or family there:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-ne ... tation-row

I don’t know how this can possibly be right.


there is her own confession, where she claims to still follow IS.

also, you really shouldn't be surprised that "the government doesn't like" IS. it would be something, when our covernment WOULD like IS sympathisers
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:58 am

action wrote:
there is her own confession, where she claims to still follow IS.

also, you really shouldn't be surprised that "the government doesn't like" IS. it would be something, when our covernment WOULD like IS sympathisers


We actually still have freedom of speech in the UK so it isn’t illegal to support IS.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:01 am

Ultimately she’s a homegrown terrorist, so there’s no reason why we should expect any other country to take her in. ISIS is not recognised as a country, and every country in the world (officially at least) condemns them.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:21 am

And then, ignoring the legal or ethical considerations, there’s the pragmatic side.

Muslims across the UK have now been told that they will be stripped of their citizenship if they don’t behave. They have been told that their citizenship is not the same as other British people’s citizenships. They are second class citizens.

Don’t be surprised if some of them become radicalised.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:24 am

Elessar wrote:And then, ignoring the legal or ethical considerations, there’s the pragmatic side.

Muslims across the UK have now been told that they will be stripped of their citizenship if they don’t behave. They have been told that their citizenship is not the same as other British people’s citizenships. They are second class citizens.

Don’t be surprised if some of them become radicalised.


source?
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:31 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:And then, ignoring the legal or ethical considerations, there’s the pragmatic side.

Muslims across the UK have now been told that they will be stripped of their citizenship if they don’t behave. They have been told that their citizenship is not the same as other British people’s citizenships. They are second class citizens.

Don’t be surprised if some of them become radicalised.


source?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47299907
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:38 am

Here’s another perspective.

Some people in Britain can’t wait to mention the Rotherham abuse scandal, in which Asian men groomed and abused white girls aged 11-16. This is frequently (including here) brought up in discussions about race, immigration and suchlike:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherha ... on_scandal

Begum was 15 when she joined ISIS. People seem very quick to blame her for this.

I don’t know - do Muslim girls’ reach emotional maturity earlier than white girls or something? In the same way that 10 year old boys who murder toddlers have fully developed frontal lobes some 15 years earlier than their peers?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby WeeMann » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:59 am

Elessar, I think you're missing an important point. You've commented on a few people who haven't been stripped of their UK citizenship, but figures show that over 100 people were during 2017 (I haven't found figures for 2018), so there must be good reason why the examples you've found weren't.

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a simple reason why it's happening in this case - the media. For some reason this case has had massive publicity from day 1, publicity which previous cases simply haven't.

Perhaps the reason she's been stripped of her citizenship isn't racism, but that she's being made an example of. Perhaps the Home Secretary looked at the massive publicity (and this includes the innumerable social media memes, etc, that have been floating around) and figured she could be used as a huge example to others wanting to do the same? Simple politics. As long as it stands it sends out a powerful message.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:37 am

WeeMann wrote:Elessar, I think you're missing an important point. You've commented on a few people who haven't been stripped of their UK citizenship, but figures show that over 100 people were during 2017 (I haven't found figures for 2018), so there must be good reason why the examples you've found weren't.

I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's not a simple reason why it's happening in this case - the media. For some reason this case has had massive publicity from day 1, publicity which previous cases simply haven't.

Perhaps the reason she's been stripped of her citizenship isn't racism, but that she's being made an example of. Perhaps the Home Secretary looked at the massive publicity (and this includes the innumerable social media memes, etc, that have been floating around) and figured she could be used as a huge example to others wanting to do the same? Simple politics. As long as it stands it sends out a powerful message.


Yeah, I found a list of others who were stripped of citizenship as well. It makes for uncomfortable reading:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019 ... mima-begum

If she was made an example of to deter anyone else who might do the same, I fear it will have the opposite effect. By demonstrating that the citizenship of British Muslims is conditional and can be taken away, the Home Secretary has effectively established a second tier of citizenship for a group of people who ISIS say will never be welcome in the West. What message does that send to disenfranchised young Muslims growing up in times of austerity and rising rates of hate crime? And how receptive do you think they’ll be to the ideas the fundamentalist at the local mosque has? Their families said he was crazy and they shouldn’t listen to him, but everything he’s been saying is all starting to make sense now...
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:57 am

Elessar wrote:Here’s another perspective.

Some people in Britain can’t wait to mention the Rotherham abuse scandal, in which Asian men groomed and abused white girls aged 11-16. This is frequently (including here) brought up in discussions about race, immigration and suchlike:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherha ... on_scandal

Begum was 15 when she joined ISIS. People seem very quick to blame her for this.

I don’t know - do Muslim girls’ reach emotional maturity earlier than white girls or something? In the same way that 10 year old boys who murder toddlers have fully developed frontal lobes some 15 years earlier than their peers?


why are you always skipping over the fact that she is still an IS sympathiser, every much if not more than when she was 15 years old?
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby JLP » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:07 pm

Although I have reservations about her coming back here I think the citizenship decision was done purely for political reasons. There iz an undercurrent of anti Islam in the UK and this decision will find favour witb those people.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:32 pm

JLP wrote:Although I have reservations about her coming back here I think the citizenship decision was done purely for political reasons. There iz an undercurrent of anti Islam in the UK and this decision will find favour witb those people.


this is just a plain safety measure and it should be dealt with thoroughly. stripping her from her british nationality is just step 1. It is mind boggling this terrorist sympathiser is still a free woman. she's got all the time now to plot evil deeds.

what the world needs is more terrorists, like it needs a hole in the head
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby JLP » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:54 pm

action wrote:
JLP wrote:Although I have reservations about her coming back here I think the citizenship decision was done purely for political reasons. There iz an undercurrent of anti Islam in the UK and this decision will find favour witb those people.


this is just a plain safety measure and it should be dealt with thoroughly. stripping her from her british nationality is just step 1. It is mind boggling this terrorist sympathiser is still a free woman. she's got all the time now to plot evil deeds.

what the world needs is more terrorists, like it needs a hole in the head



I said a while back that if she returns, she should be accountable for her actions.
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