Hillsborough

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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Elessar » Thu May 29, 2014 10:21 am

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Re: Hillsborough

Postby JLP » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:37 am

The person who posted the offensive stuff about Hillsborough on Wikipaedia whilst at work in Whitehall has been sacked. Quite right too. What is shocking is that he lives in Liverpool.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-27882680
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Cool Cat » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:59 pm

JLP wrote:The person who posted the offensive stuff about Hillsborough on Wikipaedia whilst at work in Whitehall has been sacked. Quite right too. What is shocking is that he lives in Liverpool.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-27882680

Some peoples lives must be so sad and boring they have to revert to such nonsense, what the hell did he really get from doing such a thing? :roll:
 
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby JLP » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:46 pm

Cool Cat wrote:
JLP wrote:The person who posted the offensive stuff about Hillsborough on Wikipaedia whilst at work in Whitehall has been sacked. Quite right too. What is shocking is that he lives in Liverpool.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-27882680

Some peoples lives must be so sad and boring they have to revert to such nonsense, what the hell did he really get from doing such a thing? :roll:


who knows? Bit like people on here banging on and on and on about the same old shit.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby JLP » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:59 am

So David Duckenfield has admitted he lied when he said drunk fans forced the gates at Hillsborough. I wonder if he will face charges for perjury as he would if he had lied in a criminal court.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Guru » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:21 am

More shocking to me was that he didn't know the stadium layout, so had no clue where the 5000 people he was about to let in (with no knowledge of whether they had tickets or not) would then go.

He effectively gave up control when faced with a mob - and will rightly be castigated for it....but what of the aforementioned mob?

I'm not following every press report of this, will read the report when it's published, but there do seem to be questions that aren't being asked. Hopefully they are just being unreported.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:10 pm

Guru wrote:He effectively gave up control when faced with a mob - and will rightly be castigated for it....but what of the aforementioned mob?


Liverpool fans have been fully exonerated of any collective blame on multiple occasions, most notable in the report by the Hillsborough Independent Panel (http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/ ... hapter-12/). You were either living under a rock for a bit, or are choosing to ignore that. It also addresses the issue of ticketless fans; a lie which you once again propagate.

In latest developments, it looks like he may end up going to jail over this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31928476

I don't think that would be appropriate though; the man's clearly suffered over the years and throwing him in jail won't bring any of the deceased back.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:23 pm

Guru wrote:More shocking to me was that he didn't know the stadium layout, so had no clue where the 5000 people he was about to let in (with no knowledge of whether they had tickets or not) would then go.

He effectively gave up control when faced with a mob - and will rightly be castigated for it....but what of the aforementioned mob?

I'm not following every press report of this, will read the report when it's published, but there do seem to be questions that aren't being asked. Hopefully they are just being unreported.


"Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor's findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead."

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/ ... 2/page10a/


Thanks for providing a nice reminder of why this inquest is so important, 26 years on. I suspect that even when it's all over, some will continue to spread the lies that have been spread for 26 years, either out of laziness in not bothering to read the real truth, or as part of a campaign to besmirch Liverpool Football Club and its supporters, but maybe they'll soon be consigned to the same category of denialists as those who claim the Earth is 4,600 years old, the Holocaust didn't actually happen, or 9/11 was an inside job.

And if they decide to sing about it on Sunday, I hope they get arrested.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Guru » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:16 am

"Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor's findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead."

I didn't say that that anybody who ended up on the pitch did anything untoward, and any suggestion of conspiracy to arrive late is patently ridiculous in the context of the general behaviour of football fans at that time.

However - then as now there will have been significant levels of drinking (as a standard part of the matchday experience), and there will have been people present without tickets, for whom the opening of an exit gate was too good an opportunity to miss. Less than was claimed by the police, but some.
NONE OF THIS IS A CRITICISM OF ANY PARTICULAR CLUB OR ITS SUPPORTERS. That is merely an observation on how fans of every club behaved. I'm absolutely clear that had Utd been playing Forest, the same thing could easily have happened, as with the previous crushes at the same ground with Spurs/Wolves & Leeds/Coventry.

This twisting of words to compare me, oddly, with a Holocaust denier, exemplifies the issue that I have with the reporting. Someone says "some fans arrived at the last minute without tickets", and the vitriolic response comes back to the effect that all 96 victims had tickets on their persons, as if that's any kind of counterargument. I've said there was a mob of people outside, you link to a quote about the people on the pitch. There's a sense that with the Duckenfield evidence this week, the 96 have been exonerated - when in fact nobody, not even the Sun, claimed they were to blame in the first place.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Elessar » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:38 am

The report says that there was not an unusual amount of drunkeness or ticketlessness that day. It doesn't exonerate the 96; it exonerates every Liverpool fan in Sheffield that day.

Shifting the blame from those who died to those who survived is no less of a lie.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby Elessar » Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:19 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35979802

Has the jury spent 2 years in court?! I know employers have to make allowances for jury duty, but how can these people go back to their old jobs after 2 years away?!
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby pow wow » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:37 am

Finally. Justice.
 
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby JLP » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:42 am

pow wow wrote:Finally. Justice.


I just heard. I feel quite emotional but am happy they justice has prevailed. When I was in Liverpool last year I visited the museum at the docks. When I saw the memorial in there with all the names, I actually shed tears.
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby pow wow » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:04 am

JLP wrote:
pow wow wrote:Finally. Justice.


I just heard. I feel quite emotional but am happy they justice has prevailed. When I was in Liverpool last year I visited the museum at the docks. When I saw the memorial in there with all the names, I actually shed tears.


Yes emotional day. I hope the families can move forward now. It's also the correct time to finish the annual memorial at Anfield. Up to the the CPS now who they go after, can't imagine they won't.

Hope you enjoyed your visit. When you said you were staying in the Adelphi I did draw a sharp intake of breath. It was beuatiful in its heyday - about 70 years ago :) .
 
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Re: Hillsborough

Postby JLP » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:09 am

pow wow wrote:
JLP wrote:
pow wow wrote:Finally. Justice.


I just heard. I feel quite emotional but am happy they justice has prevailed. When I was in Liverpool last year I visited the museum at the docks. When I saw the memorial in there with all the names, I actually shed tears.


Yes emotional day. I hope the families can move forward now. It's also the correct time to finish the annual memorial at Anfield. Up to the the CPS now who they go after, can't imagine they won't.

Hope you enjoyed your visit. When you said you were staying in the Adelphi I did draw a sharp intake of breath. It was beuatiful in its heyday - about 70 years ago :) .


Lol bit like me then.
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