Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Montavilla » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:11 pm

We're finally getting the newest series of Doctor Who in the states (the seventh episode should be airing tomorrow). I'm surprised that there hasn't been any posting to this topic recently.

What are people thinking about the new doctor?

Myself, I like her. She's more low key than the previous doctors, but I'm finding that a welcome change after four strongly alpha doctors. (So much running with Tennant and Smith -- did the earlier doctors run around so much?)

I'm not all that up on the Classic Who stuff, but I feel like this series is skewing more to the roots of the series than the Davies/Moffat years. It feels like it's looking for a younger audience, one that isn't into a "sexy" doctor. None of the companions is really crushing on the doctor (as of yet), and even Ryan and Yasmin are barely flirting with each other. Instead, we're getting more themes about friendship, father/son relationships, and family history.

My favorite episode so far is "Rosa." I don't think I've ever seen a better historical episode. Certainly not in New Who, where we usually just plop down into a period, get a smattering of details, and bang, it's on to dinosaur robots or alien witches or something equally irrelevant. This episode was all about the actual event, and cleverly taught us everything we needed to know about Rosa Parks, while making it emotionally important for the Tardis Team as well. Having them, with their 2018 perspective, suddenly have to deal with 1950s-style racism was a great way to show how inhuman that society was, without having to preach it.
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sir Didymus » Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:49 pm

We're getting it only a few hours before the States, Montaville. BBC America puts a lot of cash into the show now aiui, and it'd be heavily torrented if it wasn't broadcast asap after the UK airing.

Personally, I'm loving Jodie's Doctor. I like her companions. I like the new look for the show. I'm loving the new music. Not entirely sold on the inside of the TARDIS, and a few episodes seem to just fizzle out (eg, Aranchids in the UK), but when it works, as it did with Rosa, Demons of the Punjab and Kerblam!, it really really works.

There's a strong rumour going around that the current team won't be around much longer. Which is a shame, if true, because they're really hitting their stride right now.
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Montavilla » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:59 pm

I've heard that rumor as well. I'm hoping it's not true, because I'm liking both the Doctor, and the direction of the show.
I'd like to get a full three years, at least, from them.

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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Elessar » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:05 am

I’d be surprised if Bradley Walsh lasts longer than one season, but the rest will I’m sure.
 
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sir Didymus » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:28 am

Elessar wrote:I’d be surprised if Bradley Walsh lasts longer than one season, but the rest will I’m sure.


He's definitely in the New Years Day special, so we'll see, I guess...
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Champs » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:29 pm

Not the show it used to be, that's for sure.
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sir Didymus » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:39 pm

Champs wrote:Not the show it used to be, that's for sure.


Has it ever been?

Across 2016/17, I rewatched all of the Hartnell and Troughton era, slowly but surely.
Across this year, I rewatched all of Pertwee, Tom, Davison, Colin and McCoy's stories, plus the TVM.
I'm planning to revisit the 21st century stories in the new year.

And what I've seen is a show that is constantly evolving, and veering from amazing to awful in the blink of an eye.

By that token, this year is no different... even if it looks, sounds and feels totally like a new show.
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby The Doctor » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:13 pm

I've loved this season. It's refreshing to take a break from the Cybermen and Daleks showing up every year.
 
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Elessar » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:27 am

That latest episode was basically a tribute to 2001: A Space Odyssey, right?
 
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Teo_torriate04 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:16 am

Hate it. Wanted to like it, but hate it. Don't like the Doctor, don't like the assistants and hate, hate hate the preachy virtue signalling stories this series. This truly is a box ticking Doctor for the Snowflake Generation.
 
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sir Didymus » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:57 pm

Teo_torriate04 wrote:Hate it. Wanted to like it, but hate it. Don't like the Doctor, don't like the assistants and hate, hate hate the preachy virtue signalling stories this series. This truly is a box ticking Doctor for the Snowflake Generation.


I absolutely detest this argument. Dislike it for the actors, the scripts, the visual aesthetic etc... totally fine. But if you don't think Doctor Who has always been preachy, virtue signalling etc, then frankly you've not been paying attention. Also, The Doctor would frown upon anyone who uses the term Snowflake, let alone dismisses an entire generation of people in that manner. :roll:

I saw a brilliant riposte to this tired old argument recently.

http://sartorialgeek.com/political-awar ... octor-who/

For ease, here is their list of the "PC" things from Doctor Who's history.

★ Verity Lambert was the first female producer at the BBC.
★ Waris Hussein, the director of the very first Doctor Who story “An Unearthly Child”, was an openly gay, Indian man.
★ When we meet Susan Foreman in “An Unearthly Child”, she’s talking back to her teachers and pointing out the flaws in the “official” version of history as portrayed in her French Revolution textbook.
★ In “The Cave of Skulls” the cave society was portrayed as having a matriarchy. The Old Mother was the most sensible character in a tribe of “noisy males”.
★ In “The Daleks” the titular characters are specifically considered evil because of their thirst for “racial purity”. Creator Terry Nation would later admit they were inspired by the Nazis.
★ The Dalek home planet of Skaro was devastated by a nuclear arms race that got out of control.
★ Barbara Wright. Every single thing about Barbara Wright. In “Edge of Destruction” it was Barbara who stood up to The Doctor and challenged his dismissive behavior toward she and Ian.
★ “Planet Of Giants” is about environmentalism.
★ “The Rescue” features a strong critique of gaslighting behavior.
★ “The Dalek Master Plan” introduces us to Space Security Service agent Sara Kingdom. She helped the Doctor and Steven defeat the evil Mavic Chen and his Daleks.
★ “The Savages” is basically about colonialism and it portrays the “Natives” as the good guys and the so-called civilized “Elders” as the bad guys. If that isn’t convincing enough the original title was “The White Savages.”
★ “The War Machines” introduces working-class sailor Ben, who we’re meant to side with in opposition to the aristocratic idiots who keep talking down to him, and Polly – a thoroughly modern upper-class young woman with a knack for solving problems based on her traditionally female expertise. She’s arguably Doctor Who’s first lipstick feminist.
★ In “The Tenth Planet”, the Cybermen call Polly out for only caring when someone dies in front of her, and not about the millions of people who are dying around the world. This is the kind of “oh-so-clever” retort some edgelord on Twitter might say. That’s right: in 1966, Doctor Who compared Cybermen to concern-trolls.
★ “The Macra Terror” is about the importance of questioning authority. It encourages the viewer to look beneath the cheery façade of life and ask what’s really going on. The Doctor overthrows an oppressive regime who keeps its people pacified with pretty slogans and lies. The Macra is Fox News, is what I’m saying.
★ “The Ice Warriors” takes place in a future where another ice age was triggered by climate change caused by humanity.
★ Salamander is explicitly based on hard-right, fascists like Juan Peron.
★ Zoe is said to be smarter than the Doctor and is certainly smarter than the boys.
★ “The Mind Robber” takes a lot of visual cues from psychedelia and drug counter-culture.
★ “The Krotons” has the Doctor leading a student rebellion in 1969.
★ “The War Games” portrays war as a situation where poor young men die while posh old men pull the strings from afar.
★ “Spearhead From Space” is anti-corporations.
★ “The Silurians” portrays the Brigadier as wrong for his Reagan-esque “shoot first and ask questions later’ attitude.
★ “Inferno” is about the dangers of oil drilling & fracking.
★ Liz Shaw.
★ “Terror of the Autons” is anti-corporations.
★ “Colony In Space”: Anti-arms race and pro-environment.
★ “The Daemons”: incredibly sympathetic towards Paganism at the expense of Christianity. They literally blow up a church.
★ “The Curse Of Peladon” is pro-European Union. I wonder if this is Jeremy Corbyn or Boris Johnson’s least favorite story?
★ “The Time Monster” features a female scientist portrayed as awesome and capable while her male counterpart is portrayed as an idiotic sexist.
★ “Carnival Of Monsters” is about anti-slavery.
★ In “The Green Death” the off-the-grid hippies are the good guys. Capitalism is the bad guy. It’s about as pro-environment as you can get.
★ Sarah Jane Smith. Again. Sarah Jane Smith. Sarah. Jane. Smith.
★ “The Monster of Peladon” is about the miner’s strike. Also, there’s Sarah Jane’s amazing “there’s nothing only about being a girl” moment.
★ “Planet of the Spiders” positively portrays a non-Christian religion as – essentially- the closest thing to spiritual truth as exists in the Doctor Who universe.
★ Harry Sullivan is nice-ish guy, but sexist and clearly wrong as hell. Sarah Jane doesn’t hesitate to call him on it.
★ “Genesis Of The Daleks” Did I mention nuclear war was bad? Did I mention the Daleks were Nazis?
★ “The Seeds Of Doom” – more pro-environment propaganda. Like, a LOT of it.
★ The Deadly Assassin – All authority is corrupt–even Time Lords.
★ The Face Of Evil – Religion is corrupt.
★ Now, granted, the show’s not perfect. “Talons of Weng-Chiang” is pretty racist – they actually cast a white guy as an evil Asian guy and put him in yellow-face … but I’ll give the show some credit for portraying all the white British people as massive idiots.
★ “The Sunmakers” features a sort of “Tea-Partyish plot with an anti-tax perspective. The government on Pluto acts more like a private business than a government. The moral is essentially “greed is bad.”
★ Romana. She changed her species yet you’re having a hard time with a Time Lord changing their gender?
★ “Ribos Operation?” Essentially, Galileo was right.
★ “The Pirate Planet”? Essentially, predatory resource mining is inherently exploitative.
★ “Power Of Kroll?” Colonialism is bad.
★ “The Armageddon Factor?” Wars fought over ancient grudges are really bad.
★ Romana II. Chooses her own form. Let’s unpack that one … Chooses her own form. So they have a choice in how they turn out all the way back in the 70s.
★ “Destiny Of The Daleks” Computerized war is just as bad as war plotted out by humans, because the people it kills are still super dead.
★ “City Of Death” may not have a huge message beyond a bit of anti-creationism, but it deserves to be mentioned because it’s really good.
★ “Full Circle” is super pro-evolution. Actually, the whole rest of this season serves a pretty strong rejection of religious dogma in favor of scientific fact and humanistic values… “Warrior’s Gate”, “The Keeper Of Traken”, “Logopolis”.
★ Tom Baker suggested that he be succeeded by a woman.
★ Tegan. Literally Tegan.
★ “Four To Doomsday” kind of attempts to make a positive statement about multi-culturalism. Admittedly, it comes up a bit short, but points for effort!
★ “Kinda” Colonialism is bad and men are stupid.
★ “Snakedance” Colonialism is bad and most people are stupid.
★ The tagline for “Terminus” could have been a repeating “Healthcare is a right!” chant.
★ “Warriors Of The Deep” Mutually assured destruction sucks.
★ “The Awakening” Toxic masculinity sucks.
★ “Resurrection of the Daleks” War really, really sucks, and Tegan’s literally done with your toxic masculinity B.S. Jovanka out!
★ “Planet Of Fire” Religion is stupid!
★ “The Caves Of Androzani” highlights that greed is bad, we shouldn’t exploit people, and that we need safer labor regulations. Meanwhile, Sharaz Jek is the ultimate basement dwelling misogynist creep.
★ “The Twin Dilemma” It essentially…nope, can’t defend that one. Nothing’s perfect.
★ “Attack of the Cybemen” had the Cryons with a matriarchal society.
★ “Vengeance on Varos” the media is manipulating you through fear and violence. An eerily predictive statement on reality television.
★ “The Two Doctors” promotes a vegetarian lifestyle.
★ In 1986, Sydney Newman, the Head of Drama at the BBC who greenlit Doctor Who suggests we should have a female Doctor.
★ “Paradise Towers” is about a left-wing, punk rock, working class rebellion against a coded neo-Nazi regime of unearned male privilege. Meanwhile, Pex is clearly a critique of toxic masculinity.
★ “Delta and the Bannermen” An inter-racial (and species) couple in the 1950s.
★ Ace.
★ “Remembrance of the Daleks” has a not remotely subtle commentary about how bad racism was in the 1960s. It was critical of its era in a way that goes well past “Oh, that’s just what they thought back then.”
★ “The Happiness Patrol” is about as anti-Thatcher as you can get. “Up The Killjoys!” is based on a chant shouted by the social justice left.
★ In “Silver Nemesis” the neo-nazis are the bad guys and the Doctor blows up the Cybermen with jazz. Yeah, jazz man.
★ In “Battlefield” we meet Brigadier Winifred Bambera, a black woman in charge of UNIT, and she falls in love with one of King Arthur’s knights. Additionally, we meet Shou Yuing, an asian character who address latent racism in society.
★ “Ghost Light” resents evolution is real and states that categorization via ethnicity is stupid.
★ “Curse Of Fenric” Oh there is so much to unpack here. Faith is what you make of it, sexual repression is bad, we should look out for single mothers, the Commie is a good guy, the computer scientist is supposed to be analogous to Alan Turing (the novelization suggests that he was a lot closer with the base commander than we saw on screen…) etc.
★ “Survival” Toxic masculinity is bad and tough women rule.
★ Rose and Mickey – interracial couple
★ “The End of the World” is critique of greed, classism, racism, & specifically Cassandra’s “racial purity.”
★ “Dalek” illustrates how war turns really good people into really bad people. Acquisition for acquisitions sake is bad.
★ “The Long Game” was originally titled “The Untitled Rupert Murdoch Biopic”. That’s not true, but it could have been.
★ “Don’t forget the welfare state!”
★ “The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances” focuses on a single mother in World War II, dealing with the kind of shame she’d deal with at the time.
★ Captain Jack Harkness.
★ In “Bad Wolf” we see that a society without empathy reduces its populace into fodder for cheap entertainment. It wasn’t the Doctor who saved the universe, but rather the working class teenage girl who literally became a goddess, brought Jack back to life, turned the Daleks into atoms, and saved the universe.
★ “New Earth” Can we borrow that “Terminus” tagline again? “Healthcare is a right!”
★ “School Reunion” – Ketchup is not a vegetable!
★ “Age Of Steel” is anti-capitalist
★ “The Idiot’s Lantern” is anti-patriarchy
★ “Fear Her” is anti-patriarchy
★ Donna Noble.
★ Martha Jones.
★ “Gridlock” illustrates how the ritualistic aspects of religion can be a connecting and productive force when facing adversity.
★ “Daleks In Manhattan” has diverse casting in 1930s New York, social inequality, literally features an anti-capitalist rebellion
★ “Human Nature/Family Of Blood” is anti-racist, classist, sexist, and specifically anti-toxic masculinity as you can get.
★ “The Sound Of Drums/Last Of The Time Lords” – If you claim you can watch that two-parter now without thinking of Trump and/or Theresa May, you’re lying.
★ River Song.
★ During “Turn Left”, an immigrant family is taken away and WIlf says “it’s just like before the war.” That imagery is even more so haunting today given things going on in the world.
★ “The Waters Of Mars” features a strong woman incredibly critical of the Doctor’s presumptive egotism and she is first person on Mars.
★ “The End Of Time” is about someone becoming President and deletes what the previous President did at any cost. Nah, that’s not relatable.
★ In “The Eleventh Hour” we meet Rory who is a male nurse and it wasn’t an issue or plot point
★ “The Beast Below” flat out admits that “The Good Guys” (the British) have done some terrible things throughout history and that modern day civilization depends on us forgetting all about it.
★ “The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood” – so, how do we deal with indigenous people, and share land with them, and…. Ooh, hope we don’t mess this up?
★ “Vincent and the Doctor” – mental health care is a right!
★ “The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang”: Rory waited for Amy for thousands of years.
★ “A Christmas Carol”: greed is bad, compassion and empathy are good, child abuse is bad, and boys can be babysitters.
★ Canton Everett Delaware III has a black boyfriend.
★ In “The Doctor’s Wife” we learn that the Corsair switched genders. Confirmed. It’s canon. It also flipped the script and made the Tardis – a woman – essentially the protagonist of this story all along, if you want to read it like that. (“I stole a Time Lord and ran away.”)
★ “The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People” – not only is capitalism bad and exploitative, it actually dehumanizes us.
★ Gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled.
★ Bad-ass Warrior Amy from “The Girl Who Waited”.
★ Fascinatingly diverse casting in “The God Complex”.
★ Love conquers all, and being a good Dad is super important in “Closing Time”.
★ Biracial lesbian Victorian detectives. One of them is a lizard.
★ “The Bells of St. John” – net neutrality is a right!
★ Kate Stewart.
★ Osgood.
★ While one of the more problematic tropes of the Moffat era is “Woman as savior,” it should be noted that this also means that one of the tropes of the era is “Men are cocky violent idiots who need to be saved from themselves.” It’s not perfect, but you really see that over and over again, especially in… “The Day Of The Doctor.”
★ “Flatline” – Clara’s basically the Doctor and who’s her companion? Essentially Banksy.
★ “In The Forest Of The Night” – totally nonsensical, has bad ideas about psychiatric meds…and I hate it. However, it *is* about as pro-environment as it gets. The trees are literally taking their revenge.
★ M-I-S-S-Y.
★ Yeah, Moffat should have hired more female writers. But guess which Doctor Who showrunner hired more female directors than anyone else, ever? Yup. Sheree Folkson, Hettie Macdonald, Catherine Moorhead, and Rachel Talalay. 15% of episodes were directed by women – that’s still way too low a percentage, but it’s way higher than any other era in the show’s history.
★ We get to actually see the General regenerate from a white guy into a black woman. On screen. It’s canon. Get over it.
★ Bill Potts – first openly gay full time companion.
★ “Thin Ice” – racism and classism are the enemy.
★ “Oxygen” – capitalism is the enemy.
★ “Lie Of The Land” – authoritarian propaganda is the enemy, and the only thing that can beat it, is a black woman who loves her mom.
★ “Empress Of Mars” – colonialism and racism are the enemy.
★ “The Eaters Of Light” – Rome was gay as hell.
★ Bill gets rescued by her almost-girlfriend at the end of “The Doctor Falls”, and the fact that we’re talking about how that didn’t make a lot of sense logically instead of the fact that “Bill got rescued by her girlfriend” is a pretty good sense of where the show is coming from.
★ Oh, also, the 13th Doctor is a woman.
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sole Survivor » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:08 am

Dids, how on earth can Curse Of Peladon be pro European Union, when it was made in 1972, and the EU officially came into existence on 1/11/1993 in Maastricht? Just saying...
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sole Survivor » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:21 am

Also, another thing. Chris Chibnall features in this 1986 video, where he effectively tells Pip and Jane Baker how he dislikes this particular season of Who, which to him features a lot of 'silly monsters and people running up and down corridors' Yes, that's him on the right in the yellow tie.

phpBB [video]


How can he have the sheer brass neck to accuse them of such a thing when he wrote The Tsuranga Conundrum and Dinosaurs On A Spaceship, which were essentially that?! Pip and Jane were given the onerous task of writing the finale episodes to the Trial Of A Timelord season, in a way to make it all make sense, and to my mind, they did exactly that- moreso, actually, because it became a work of allegorical flipping genius, sticking two finger sup at the critics and the BBC who were putting the series itself on trial at the time. I would love to see Chinballs come up with something half as subtle or as genius as that.
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sir Didymus » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:15 pm

Sole Survivor wrote:Dids, how on earth can Curse Of Peladon be pro European Union, when it was made in 1972, and the EU officially came into existence on 1/11/1993 in Maastricht? Just saying...


I didn't write the list - I just ported it over.

But the whole Curse of Peladon/European single market thing is discussed on the story's DVD release. The UK joined the EEC in 1973, which means it was a topical discussion during the making of the story. Letts & Dicks were aware of that, and used it as inspiration for the story.
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Re: Doctor Who // Torchwood // The Sarah Jane Adventures

Postby Sir Didymus » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:17 pm

Sole Survivor wrote:Also, another thing. Chris Chibnall features in this 1986 video, where he effectively tells Pip and Jane Baker how he dislikes this particular season of Who, which to him features a lot of 'silly monsters and people running up and down corridors' Yes, that's him on the right in the yellow tie.

phpBB [video]


How can he have the sheer brass neck to accuse them of such a thing when he wrote The Tsuranga Conundrum and Dinosaurs On A Spaceship, which were essentially that?! Pip and Jane were given the onerous task of writing the finale episodes to the Trial Of A Timelord season, in a way to make it all make sense, and to my mind, they did exactly that- moreso, actually, because it became a work of allegorical flipping genius, sticking two finger sup at the critics and the BBC who were putting the series itself on trial at the time. I would love to see Chinballs come up with something half as subtle or as genius as that.


More to the point, Chibnall wrote Cyberwoman, which is hands down my least favourite bit of televised Who related programming this side of "The Afterparty" BBC Three shat out on the 50th anniversary. :lol:

Though, I have to be honest, whilst I'm no fan of Chibnall and think the best episodes this year were the ones he didn't write, I don't think you can fairly call to task a television writer in 2018 for something they said on telly as a teenager in 1986.

And the last episode of Trial was still wank. Nothing can prevent the catharsis of spurious morality, indeed! :lol:
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