Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Innuendoes » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:22 am

Witness: Michael Jackson's doctor seemed not to know CPR
By Alan Duke, CNN
January 4, 2011 7:07 p.m. EST

Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- Dr. Conrad Murray seemed not to know how to administer cardiopulmonary resuscitation as he waited for paramedics to arrive at Michael Jackson's house, a witness at Murray's preliminary hearing testified Tuesday.

Former Jackson security chief Faheem Muhammed said he and and guard Alberto Alvarez saw Murray crouched next to Jackson's bed "in a panicked state asking, 'Does anyone know CPR?'"

"I looked at Alberto because we knew Dr. Murray was a heart surgeon, so we were shocked," Muhammed said.

When defense lawyer Ed Chernoff asked if perhaps Murray was only asking for help because he was tired, Muhammed said "The way that he asked it is as if he didn't know CPR."

Jackson appeared to be dead at that time, with his "eyes open and his mouth open, just laying there," he said.

Prosecutor David Walgren earlier said that Murray used "ineffectual CPR with one hand while the patient was prone on a soft bed." Two hands with the patient prone on a hard surface is the proper method, he said.

Muhammed, the third witness on the opening day of the hearing, said he never saw Murray performing CPR on Jackson before paramedics arrived and carried him to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center.

Jackson's mother, Katherine, sister La Toya, and brothers Randy and Jackie sat in the second row of the courtroom during Tuesday's opening session.

Jackson's two oldest children, Prince and Paris, were at their father's bedroom door as the drama unfolded just after noon on June 25, 2009, Muhammed said.

"Paris was on the floor on her hands and knees and she was just crying," he said.

The children would learn two hours later that their father had died when Dr. Murray and Jackson manager Frank Dileo talked to them in a hospital room.

"Frank blurted out and said "Your daddy had a heart attack and died," Jackson personal assistant Michael Williams testified.

Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor will decide whether there is "probable cause" to try Murray on an involuntary manslaughter in the pop star's death. The hearing is expected to last two or three weeks, with 20 to 30 witnesses testifying.

Murray waited at least 21 minutes after he found pop star Michael Jackson unresponsive before calling for an ambulance, a prosecutor said at the start of Murray's preliminary hearing Tuesday.

"By all accounts, Michael Jackson was dead in the bedroom at 100 North Carolwood prior to the paramedics' arrival," said Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren.

The coroner concluded Jackson died from "acute propofol intoxication," in combination with "the contributory effects of the benzodiazepines," Walgren said.

Propofol is a powerful anesthetic used to "put people under for surgery," and the benzodiazepines were sedatives Murray later acknowledged giving Jackson in the morning before his death, he said.

"Michael Jackson was preparing for one of the most important tours of his life" in the months before his death, Walgren said.

Murray's defense team has hinted it would argue that Jackson was under pressure from the concert promoter, which led him to demand treatments to help him sleep.

Kenny Ortega, who directed Jackson's comeback "This Is It" concerts, was the first of about 30 witnesses to be called by the prosecution.

Ortega described Jackson as "involved, active, participating" at his last rehearsal, which ended just 12 or 14 hours before the singer died.

"He was in a delightful mood and we had an absolutely fantastic day," Ortega testified.

But Ortega described a different, "scary" Michael Jackson at the Staples Center rehearsal on June 19, six nights before his death.

"I just felt that he appeared, you know, really lost," Ortega said. "It was scary. I didn't know what was wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it."

Ortega suggested to Jackson that he cut his rehearsal short and go home to rest.

He was called to a meeting at Jackson's home the next day, where he was "scolded" by Murray for having sent Jackson home the night before, Ortega said.

"Dr. Murray told me that this was not my responsibility and he asked me not to act like a doctor or psychologist," he said.

Ortega said it was an emotional meeting, but he denied yelling at Jackson. "It wasn't yelling," he said. "It was about caring."

"Michael said 'I know you love me and I know you care about me, but you don't have to worry. I'm fine,'" Ortega said. "It was Michael's voice that calmed me."

Randy Phillips, the CEO of concert promoter AEG Live, and Jackson manager Frank Dileo were at this meeting, along with Murray and Jackson, Ortega said.

A civil lawsuit filed last year by Michael Jackson's mother against AEG Live alleged that Phillips visited Jackson's home on June 18, 2009, to warn "that if Jackson missed any further rehearsals, they were going to 'pull the plug' on the show."

"AEG told Murray that he had to make sure Jackson got to rehearsals," Katherine Jackson's lawsuit charged.

The prosecutor told Judge Pastor that medical experts would testify that Murray, hired as Jackson's personal physician while he prepared for his concert tour, took "a number of actions" that "showed an extreme deviation from the standard of care."

In addition to the CPR performed by Murray that the prosecutor described as "ineffectual," this would include administering propofol in a home setting without proper monitoring. No medical equipment that could have monitored Jackson's pulse and breathing were found in the upstairs bedroom, Walgren said.

The 20-minute delay in calling 911 for paramedics was contrary to standard care, he said.

When paramedics arrived, Murray failed to tell them about the propofol or other drugs given to Jackson that morning, Walgren said. That, too, was contrary to standard care, he said. Murray also neglected to tell emergency room doctors who were trying to revive Jackson at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center about the drugs, Walgren said.

Murray remains free on $75,000 bond.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/04/cal ... /?hpt=Sbin
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby ice on fire » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:09 am

Thanks for all the info Inny, hard reading, but it needs to be discussed.
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Innuendoes » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:20 am

Sorry, I didn't realize it was THAT long. Doesn't look that long on the original page. But maybe ppl are just sick and tired of me posting anything about this, especially since they already know the truth and I don't. :roll:
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby ice on fire » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:33 am

Inny you haven't posted in this thread in months :P. I think you are doing a great job in covering all the angles, please don't stop doing it. I find it hard to read(which wasn't meant as an insult) just because Micheal died. I am sure if he was left in a coma, or disabled it still would be hard...but it needs to be out there. IMO.
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Innuendoes » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:58 am

Prosecutor: Jackson Was Already Dead
Updated 1/04/11 at 10:15am

Los Angeles County Prosecutor David Walgren began to lay out the case against Dr. Conrad Murray ... saying in his opening statement that Michael Jackson was dead even before paramedics got to MJ's home.

Walgren also told Judge Michael Pastor Murray tried to conceal the fact he had administered Propofol to Jackson.

Walgren said the evidence will show Murray ordered a bodyguard to help him clean up evidence and waited at least 20 minutes before he called 911.

He also pointed out Murray performed CPR incorrectly -- with one hand on his bed, rather than a hard surface.

Murray's attorney, Ed Chernoff, declined to make an opening statement.

The first witness the prosecution will call is "This Is It" producer/director Kenny Ortega.

Source: TMZ
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Innuendoes » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:00 am

Kenny Ortega Testifies
Updated 1/04/11 at 10:45am

Kenny Ortega, MJ's producer/director for "This Is It," was the first to testify, stating just days before MJ died, Dr. Murray was upset that Kenny sent MJ home from rehearsal on June 19. According to Ortega ... Murray felt only he should make such decisions.

According to Ortega ... Dr. Murray said during the June 20 meeting at MJ's home that Michael was "physically and emotionally fine," even though Ortega said MJ had the chills and was not well during the failed rehearsal the day before.

The June 20 meeting at MJ's home is important for prosecutors, who claim it shows Murray did not care about MJ's health.

And Ortega said June 23 and 24 were "two wonderful days of rehearsal" and that MJ was happy and healthy. The point -- that Jackson wasn't in distress the day before he died, and it was the Propofol that did him in.

Ortega testified, "He didn't look well at all. Michael was chilled and soft-spoken ... He wasn't in the kind of condition to be at rehearsal."
During cross examination, Ortega denied he read Michael "the riot act" during the June 20 meeting.

source: TMZ
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Elessar » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:37 pm

Innuendoes wrote:
ice on fire wrote:Bodyguards should know how to do CPR!
DOCTORS should know how to do CPR! Especially cardiologists! Murray did it on the BED, not the floor where he should have!


You'd be surprised actually. I'd say that cardiologists should certainly know it, and even if they don't know the current procedure, they should at least be able to work it out, as their knowledge of the circulatory system should be extensive.

However, CPR isn't actually a large part of medical training. We goe a single one-hour session in a 6-year course, and I think you have to have a refresher every 5 years or so. It's really not an important part of the training, because it only works in 10% of cases, and that's only if a doctor happens to be in the area when someone's heart stops.

BUT, if you're going to give someone a drug that could stop their heart, it's probably a good idea to brush up on CPR.
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Elessar » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:41 pm

Also, his cardiac arrest was pharmacologically induced, so CPR was never going to work. The fact that Murray even attempted it shows that he didn't have a clue what he was doing. The man needed an injection of adrenaline, ideally Pulp Fiction style. And defibrillation would be a good idea as well. As a man who employed his own doctor, I'd be really surprised if Jackson didn't have a defbrillator in his house somewhere. And a privately employed cardiologist with just one extremely high-profile patient should probably have had one as well! You can get one for under $1000 - if you're a cardiologist and you're planning on giving someone heart-stopping drugs, always carry one around with you!
Last edited by Elessar on Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:27 am

Horrified Michael Jackson children saw father motionlessWed Jan 5, 2011 9:37pm EST

"He (Murray) then grabbed a handful of bottles or vials and instructed me to put them in a bag," Alvarez said.

Prosecutors are seeking to establish that Murray was negligent in his treatment of the "Thriller" singer and tried to cover up his errors. Murray had been hired to care for Jackson before his planned comeback concerts in London.

Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter but has admitted giving the 50-year-old singer a dose of propofol as a sleep aid, at Jackson's request.

Coroners officials say the "King of Pop" died of a drug overdose, due mainly to acute intoxication of propofol.

Murray's attorney, Ed Chernoff, suggested to Alvarez on Wednesday that Murray could have intended to bring the medication to the hospital, or set it aside to make room for the paramedics.

Alvarez said Murray told him to take away an intravenous bag that had "a milky substance" inside, and put it with the other bottles in a plastic bag that was placed inside a canvas carrying case. He said he did not know where the bags went.

Members of Jackson's family, including sisters Janet and La Toya, mother Katherine and father Joe, watched the testimony on Wednesday.

Paramedic Richard Senneff, who responded to Jackson's home, said he found Jackson motionless. He added that Murray never told him the singer had taken propofol, despite being asked if Jackson was on any medication.

"I don't often see an IV pole and a doctor on hand," Senneff said. "The patient appeared to be pale and underweight, I was thinking along the lines that he was a hospice patient." Continued...

http://ca.reuters.com/article/entertain ... dChannel=0
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby ice on fire » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:45 am

Elessar, wasn't there at least the smallest of chances CPR might have worked :eh:? I think everyone who works in the health care system needs to know CPR...and to brush up on it more than every 5 years. When I babysat I took a course every year...and plan to do the same again sometime soon.
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Simon » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:58 am

Sorry, I didn't realize it was THAT long. Doesn't look that long on the original page.


Maybe because there is a paragraph after each sentence in your post? It's atrocious to read this way. Paragraphs are there to signal the end of a thought, or of a unit of information, not to show that the sentence ends. That's what full-stops are there for. (Not blaming you, I fear that several online news-sites do it like this nowadays. It's annoying)

I have nothing to add to this discussion though. I am just amazed that Michael's family is still exposing itself to all this.
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Elessar » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:49 pm

ice on fire wrote:Elessar, wasn't there at least the smallest of chances CPR might have worked :eh:? I think everyone who works in the health care system needs to know CPR...and to brush up on it more than every 5 years. When I babysat I took a course every year...and plan to do the same again sometime soon.


I think I gave a percentage likelihood in my post.
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Kes » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:26 pm

Without reading through the myriad of bullet pointed fact-sheets, I thought I read somewhere, that his heart had stopped sometime previous, and his brain had been without oxygen for about six hours, when the quack found him, and then progressively went about sabotaging evidence.

Bloody good luck trying to bring someone back who's been dead that long. I thought the figure they usually bank on is about six or seven minutes before rapid brain damage starts happening.

I wouldn't directly accuse the Doc Murray for murdering Jackson, but one things for sure, he certainly didn't help keeping the guy alive, and when he realised he'd not achieved that, he then started thinking rather irrationally, about how he was going to try and distance himself from both his actions and inactions.
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Elessar » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:21 pm

Kes wrote:Without reading through the myriad of bullet pointed fact-sheets, I thought I read somewhere, that his heart had stopped sometime previous, and his brain had been without oxygen for about six hours, when the quack found him, and then progressively went about sabotaging evidence.

Bloody good luck trying to bring someone back who's been dead that long. I thought the figure they usually bank on is about six or seven minutes before rapid brain damage starts happening.

I wouldn't directly accuse the Doc Murray for murdering Jackson, but one things for sure, he certainly didn't help keeping the guy alive, and when he realised he'd not achieved that, he then started thinking rather irrationally, about how he was going to try and distance himself from both his actions and inactions.


Probably less than 6-7 minutes in 'normal' conditions - more like 3 or 4 before irreparable brain damage. You can stretch it out to 45 minutes during surgery with the aid of ice and the likes though. that's the cut-off point that the surgical team would normally go with, but I know of a football manager who had no blood going to his brain for 111 minutes, and 10 years on he's still working (although maybe not for much longer!).
 
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Re: Michael Jackson - Web Of Deception & Murray's Trial

Postby Innuendoes » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:41 am

Simon wrote:
Sorry, I didn't realize it was THAT long. Doesn't look that long on the original page.


Maybe because there is a paragraph after each sentence in your post? It's atrocious to read this way. Paragraphs are there to signal the end of a thought, or of a unit of information, not to show that the sentence ends. That's what full-stops are there for. (Not blaming you, I fear that several online news-sites do it like this nowadays. It's annoying)

I have nothing to add to this discussion though. I am just amazed that Michael's family is still exposing itself to all this.

Sorry, that is the exact way it is formatted on the website. Yes, it's annoying. It's the only way I can post it, though. That or sit here and type all day and I don't want to, nor do I have time to.

Why are you shocked about Michael's family? Their son, their brother, their father was killed. Are you saying a family shouldn't go to the courtroom to watch the trial of a person that is most likely the cause of their loved one's death? Trust me, it happens every day, all over the USA with other families. Why not this one?
 
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