Gun Control

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Re: Gun Control

Postby P.T » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:15 am

Belle Leisha wrote:
FreddiesWhiteDove wrote:
"We" don't, our government drags us in whether us citizens like it or not. And we don't like it. We don't like riding America's dick while being teabagged by the EU either. On the other side of the coin, I get a feeling the US government are softening up to the idea of stricter gun control but are too scared to say it, especially when the screaming mob of Americans outside are asking for MORE guns.


Ah, would that be why both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars had about 50% approval from the British public when they started? :P There's no need whatsoever, to turn this into an anti-American thing. "We" personally definitely had nothing to do with the existing gun laws here, we can count ourselves lucky, but not better! Many Americans want gun control, just as enough Americans were liberal enough to vote Obama into office and as you say he at least now seems pretty convinced something has to change. The screaming mob you're talking about are a minority.


That did quickly fall to 0% after we realised what was going on there (and how much money we were wasting :P )

Oh but it's no nice and dry up here on the moral high ground :( The American public are used to guns, we would blindly say "Get rid of them all", Americans will say "Control certain guns, but don't take away what we have, second amendment blah blah" and that's precisely why the US government can't act quickly. Don't you think if the majority of Americans supported an anti-gun law, then perhaps they would bring one out guaranteeing their party success in the next election?
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Belle Leisha » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:48 pm

No, because congress are really in control and changing the constitution is not something they'd accept, no matter how well meaning the President may be. That's how much 'democracy' we, us and America, really have. ;)
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Montavilla » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:33 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:No, because congress are really in control and changing the constitution is not something they'd accept, no matter how well meaning the President may be. That's how much 'democracy' we, us and America, really have. ;)


Changing the Constitution is a difficult business that generally takes years. It's not something that the Congress can do on its own. Any amendment has to be ratified by two-thirds of the states.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Belle Leisha » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:13 pm

Montavilla wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:No, because congress are really in control and changing the constitution is not something they'd accept, no matter how well meaning the President may be. That's how much 'democracy' we, us and America, really have. ;)


Changing the Constitution is a difficult business that generally takes years. It's not something that the Congress can do on its own. Any amendment has to be ratified by two-thirds of the states.


Indeed and not one congress really does? As far as I knew there has only ever been one amendment that removed a right rather than gave one, the 18th amendment (prohibition) and there's also only ever been one amendment which repeals another, in the 21st, repealing prohibition. Passing a law that bans guns to any extent would mean doing two things in one amendment that have only ever been done once before. I don't know how likely that is, even if public opinion wasn't so divided as it is.

(I could be wrong about all of that and there is the full extent of my American politics 'knowledge'. :P)
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Montavilla » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:20 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
Montavilla wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:No, because congress are really in control and changing the constitution is not something they'd accept, no matter how well meaning the President may be. That's how much 'democracy' we, us and America, really have. ;)


Changing the Constitution is a difficult business that generally takes years. It's not something that the Congress can do on its own. Any amendment has to be ratified by two-thirds of the states.


Indeed and not one congress really does? As far as I knew there has only ever been one amendment that removed a right rather than gave one, the 18th amendment (prohibition) and there's also only ever been one amendment which repeals another, in the 21st, repealing prohibition. Passing a law that bans guns to any extent would mean doing two things in one amendment that have only ever been done once before. I don't know how likely that is, even if public opinion wasn't so divided as it is.

(I could be wrong about all of that and there is the full extent of my American politics 'knowledge'. :P)


Hehe. My knowledge is mostly based on fifth grade history and watching The West Wing (which got all into the 25th Amendment -- Presidential succession).

You could say that the 13th Amendment (which abolished slavery) took away the property rights of slave owners (while simultaneously guaranteeing a basic human right to slaves and indentured servants).

What Congress can do is to propose an amendment. That requires a two-thirds vote of both chambers of Congress, the Senate and the House of Representatives. I mis-spoke earlier. The ratification part takes a three-fourths vote from the states. So, with 50 states, we'd need to have 38 states ratify any change to the Constitution.

Right now, there are six amendments that have been formally proposed (getting the requisite votes from the Congress), but which were never ratified by enough states to pass. The most famous one is the Equal Rights Amendment, which would guarantee equal rights under the law for men and women.

People are always trying to push amendments for their favorite issues. So, we have groups that are trying to change the Constitution in order to outlaw abortion, or gay marriage, or allow prayer in school. If we had a system where that could happen with a simple vote by Congress, we'd be changing the document every two-four years, because each time the Republicans got in, they'd change it one way, and the next time the Democrats seized power, they change it back again -- until the Constitution was just one big mess of X's and red pencil marks.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Hueyqueen » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:13 pm

Former Navy Seal Chris Kyle, author of 'American Sniper' was shot and killed at a gun range in Texas.

Irony?

Tragic irony, certainly
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Re: Gun Control

Postby she4bikes » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:19 am

Great thread. Relates to the Roger hunting thread. Preppers are leading the way to preserve and grow the military style guns and rifles. Possibly started by military vets who became addicted to gun use while serving in the military. Upon getting out, they began their gun collections by reason of fear of the government (FEMA). Go figure! Also feeling that in order to lead the natural homesteading life, they need guns to kill their own animals. Finally, when the shit hits the fan (the Apocolypse), they will need to kill those humans hysterically looting for food as well as kill the wild animals running amok.
Another pro-gun groups is the self-protection folks who see a loss of crime control by local law enforcement. Milwaukee sheriff, for instance, http://www.wkow.com/story/20877053/2013 ... un-control
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:51 am

she4bikes wrote:Great thread. Relates to the Roger hunting thread. Preppers are leading the way to preserve and grow the military style guns and rifles. Possibly started by military vets who became addicted to gun use while serving in the military. Upon getting out, they began their gun collections by reason of fear of the government (FEMA). Go figure! Also feeling that in order to lead the natural homesteading life, they need guns to kill their own animals. Finally, when the shit hits the fan (the Apocolypse), they will need to kill those humans hysterically looting for food as well as kill the wild animals running amok.
Another pro-gun groups is the self-protection folks who see a loss of crime control by local law enforcement. Milwaukee sheriff, for instance, http://www.wkow.com/story/20877053/2013 ... un-control


That's the biggest load of misinformation I have ever read on gun control in my life!
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:57 pm

I'm surprised the police chief is defending that law. I keep hearing about how most law enforcement want that loophole closed because of the gun crimes committed by those who buy privately and they can't track the weapons.
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby she4bikes » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:40 pm

Innuendoes wrote:
she4bikes wrote:Great thread. Relates to the Roger hunting thread. Preppers are leading the way to preserve and grow the military style guns and rifles. Possibly started by military vets who became addicted to gun use while serving in the military. Upon getting out, they began their gun collections by reason of fear of the government (FEMA). Go figure! Also feeling that in order to lead the natural homesteading life, they need guns to kill their own animals. Finally, when the shit hits the fan (the Apocolypse), they will need to kill those humans hysterically looting for food as well as kill the wild animals running amok.
Another pro-gun groups is the self-protection folks who see a loss of crime control by local law enforcement. Milwaukee sheriff, for instance, http://www.wkow.com/story/20877053/2013 ... un-control


That's the biggest load of misinformation I have ever read on gun control in my life!

If you believe this is "misinformation" be curious enough to research the details. A good place to start is on the facebook prepper pages. Also watch for articles relating to anti-gun control. Pay attention to who owns guns and why.
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:51 pm

Not to get off the subject of gun control but there is this strange thing happening on the planet. For everybody's different reasons, seems like a majority of people are stockpiling something. And its not just one country, its global and its weird. Organizing a "war" food pantry, filling up with can goods and other non perishables, some gathering first-aid supplies, and yes others collecting guns. Everyone has different reasons and some do it without knowing the reasons why. They just have this "feeling" to do it. Natural disaster preparedness? Whatever? Its weird.
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby she4bikes » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:35 am

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:Not to get off the subject of gun control but there is this strange thing happening on the planet. For everybody's different reasons, seems like a majority of people are stockpiling something. And its not just one country, its global and its weird. Organizing a "war" food pantry, filling up with can goods and other non perishables, some gathering first-aid supplies, and yes others collecting guns. Everyone has different reasons and some do it without knowing the reasons why. They just have this "feeling" to do it. Natural disaster preparedness? Whatever? Its weird.

But never far away from their guns. Ponder: does the feeling of an apocoplypse ("Party Like it's 1999") justify gun use, or is it an excuse to stock up on guns?
 
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