Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby YAFF » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:11 pm

WeeMann wrote:These things become wrong in human life purely because we have developed a moral system (something that I would struggle to see being argued as natural - it happens nowhere else in the animal kingdom). Incest is also distasteful for us, but, again, it happens right through the animal kingdom. From a 'large picture' evolutionary viewpoint, it's a bad idea, but viewed short term from the standpoint of a small community, it may be necessary to continue the species.
You can't claim something is unnatural purely because you don't like it.


I'm moving away from the "natural" argument as it is just going in circles. It's almost as if you are using "natural" to mean "morally acceptable or normal"

WeeMann wrote:And this, I feel, is where you are arguing from regarding eating meat. You have your reasons for not eating meat and they may be the right ones for you, but using your emotional standpoint to argue that mankind as a whole shouldn't eat it based on those reasons is wrong.


Wrong to you but right in the existential sense. Being that humans do not need to eat animal products to do so is immoral. Unless you are willing to state morals are an illusion. In the last 12 months alone, tens of billions of animals worldwide were enslaved, murdered, dismembered or tortured by the food and clothing industries, in vivisection experiments, by hunters, in rodeos, circuses, and zoos, making the Animal Holocaust the largest and longest-running Holocaust of all time. It's important to note that animals were the first victims of slavery, oppression and murder. Humans perfected these psychotic techniques on animals before using them on each other. The fact that Heinrich Himmler, the Gestapo Commander who created the Jewish Holocaust's gas chamber system, was a mass murderer of chickens before orchestrating the mass murder of humans (yes, he was a chicken farmer/killer), makes the aforesaid point impossible to impugn. For anyone offended by the word “Holocaust” to describe what animals are going through, check out Leviticus 1:1-10 to see which victims truly own the word.

When Nazis rounded up Jews, babies were ripped out of their mothers' arms. In the dairy industry, calves are stolen from their mothers after birth. Other animal mothers, such as sows, rabbits and ewes, have their babies taken within days, weeks or months after birth. Separating families is a psychologically devastating tactic used to weaken one's pride and inhibit their desire to retaliate and fight back. Nazis swiped this technique from the meat, dairy and egg industries. Jews were tattooed to mark them. All animals in the meat and dairy industries are branded with hot irons, or ear-notched with a numerical tag. Jews were sent to the concentration camps in the same extermination trucks that still send animals to slaughterhouses. The Nazis constructed human slaughterhouses to massacre millions, while these torture-buildings have been strategically built all over the planet to massacre billions of animals. Jews have been, while animals still are, treated like nothing, as if their lives don't matter.

You can also compare the two Holocausts this way. Go to the nearest cow or pig slaughterhouse and remove the animals and replace them with humans. You have now re-created Birkenau. If you travel back in time and remove the Jews from Birkenau and replace them with cows or pigs, a Holocaust is still taking place. During my 2012-13 lectures in Israel, after showing a new slaughterhouse video, I asked thousands of people the following: "How come if the animals in that video were dogs or cats, you'd be outraged? If they were kids, you'd be screaming bloody murder! Instead the victims are cows and chickens and fish and all of a sudden no one cares, it's okay? So I'm a little confused here. Is the slaughterhouse a problem? Or is the problem who's getting killed in the slaughterhouse? It's a HOUSE OF SLAUGHTER. Why does it even exist? Especially in a country that loves to say, 'NEVER AGAIN. IT'LL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.' I got some news for ya. The Animal Holocaust was happening long before the Jewish Holocaust, during the Jewish Holocaust and it's still happening today. It's time for Israel to become the first nation on this planet to abolish concentration camps once and for all."

The global atrocity of eating animals kills more innocent beings in one year than all human atrocities over the past 5,000 years combined! This makes veganism the most important aspect of animal rights because almost every animal who is abused and killed on this planet is abused and killed by the meat, dairy and egg industries, despite the fact that no one in this day and age needs meat, cheese, milk and eggs to survive. The only exception would be people residing in icy environments or desert settings. But eating animals for pure survival is rare with only around 1 percent of the earth's population being able to use this excuse. Keep in mind, this is just a valid excuse and NOT a justification. Everyone else on this planet eats animals and the things that come out of animals for four reasons: Habit, convenience, taste and tradition. With the addition of the profit motive, those are invalid, unnecessary and barbaric reasons to intentionally harm animals.

Meat, dairy and egg-eating societies are also the main cause of world hunger as they continually feed around 50 percent of the world's corn, wheat, oats and soy to 60 billion land animals and tens of billions of marine animals (fish-farming) instead of hundreds of millions of starving people! Every two to three seconds, someone on this planet dies from malnutrition while pigs and cows get fat. Consequently, meat, dairy and egg-eaters are anti-human because feeding billions of animals instead of millions of hungry children is an indirect form of genocide.

WeeMann wrote:Like it or not, meat is one of the most efficient protein delivery systems available to us. As Elessar has explained, we have the teeth required to eat meat (as well as those suitable for eating plants) - is this just a coincidence? If we were genuinely not omnivores, we simply wouldn't be able to stomach meat.


Doing so is selfish and immoral since we do not need to eat animals for protein and we do NOT have teeth for meat eating. That's ludicrous. Our teeth and jaws are the same as all herbivores.

WeeMann wrote:Where are your eyes?


same place as herbivore gorillas.
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby Elessar » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:04 pm

I'm very happy to go along with the moral arguments. I think on the balance I just about disagree with them but I see great merit in them. Likewise the environmental arguments. At the very least, meat free Mondays are surely something everyone could take part in.

The biological argument is a non-starter though. We can eat meat, so by definition we've evolved to be able to. We haven't necessarily evolved for the sole purpose of doing so (in fact we definitely haven't; evolution has no purpose), but the fact that we are able to digest and process meat means that successive generations have been doing so, and natural selection kept hold of those abilities. Any argument that our teeth resemble herbivores is a creationist one, because it would be impossible for us to successfully maintain a diet in defiance of evolution - we'd either vomit and/or die, or we'd adapt. Only a creationist belief can be consistent with us somehow having lost our way and adopted the wrong diet.
 
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby Elessar » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:13 pm

As YAFF has indicated a bit of an interest in the anus, I'll explain anal sex in evolutionary terms. I can't particularly think of an evolutionary purpose for it (I'm sure some could be imagined), but the fact that it remains possible means that mankind's occasional dalliance with it hasn't been disadvantageous to the species. Homosexuality is of course a genetic dead-end, but it's not hard to imagine reasons why it persists - perhaps those with homosexual traits but still heterosexual enough to reproduce have qualities of empathy and sensitivity that may be advantageous. But if anal sex, which some would argue is unnatural, was against our biology, it would have to be in some way problematic, and if it were, natural selection would gradually alter our various dimensions such that it was no longer an option.
 
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby YAFF » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:19 pm

Elessar wrote:As YAFF has indicated a bit of an interest in the anus,


This is an example of your bad attitude. If you can't take it don't dish it out, bitch
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby Elessar » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:26 pm

YAFF wrote:
Elessar wrote:As YAFF has indicated a bit of an interest in the anus,


This is an example of your bad attitude. If you can't take it don't dish it out, bitch


Did I imagine the bit where you started talking about anal dildi?
 
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby YAFF » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:28 pm

Elessar wrote: Only a creationist belief can be consistent with us somehow having lost our way and adopted the wrong diet.


Not necessarily. Again, being that our bodies/systems closely resemble other herbivores and that the by products of animal consumption is one of the main causes of death it is certainly arguable that we shouldn't be eating meat or that is not the most advantageous for our species.
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby YAFF » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:30 pm

Elessar wrote:
YAFF wrote:
Elessar wrote:As YAFF has indicated a bit of an interest in the anus,


This is an example of your bad attitude. If you can't take it don't dish it out, bitch


Did I imagine the bit where you started talking about anal dildi?


I inquired about humans using tools to anally rape other humans. Saying I have "interest in the anus" is smartass comment so don't play dumb...well I understand telling you not to play dumb is like telling a bird not to fly ;)
Last edited by YAFF on Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby Elessar » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:30 pm

YAFF wrote:... the by products of animal consumption is one of the main causes of death...


Woah woah woah...what?
 
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby YAFF » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:31 pm

Elessar wrote:
YAFF wrote:... the by products of animal consumption is one of the main causes of death...


Woah woah woah...what?


Can't you read?
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby Elessar » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:33 pm

YAFF wrote:
Elessar wrote:
YAFF wrote:... the by products of animal consumption is one of the main causes of death...


Woah woah woah...what?


Can't you read?


Yes, I said "what?" not because I was unable to read your post, but because I'd like you to elaborate. I have a pretty good idea of what you're going to say but it's best that you spell it out otherwise I could be accused of strawmanning.
 
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby YAFF » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:34 pm

Elessar wrote:
YAFF wrote:... the by products of animal consumption is one of the main causes of death...


Woah woah woah...what?


Veganism not only ensures a greater reduction of cruelty on this planet than any other measure you could take; it also prevents, treats or cures heart diseases, prostate, colon, breast, ovarian and pancreatic cancers, kidney disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, high blood pressure, obesity, asthma and impotence, just to name a few.

According to a plethora of scientific articles, most meat, dairy and egg-eaters will get cancer, osteoporosis or diabetes, while more than 50 percent will have a non-genetically-induced heart attack or stroke.

Concerning cancer, there's no doubt that sugar, the oil and fat in fried foods, artificial additives, human-made trans fatty acids found in junk food, and the excessive amount of refined carbohydrates found in white rice, white bread, and pasta cause health problems, while non-dietary factors harm us, too. Stress, a lack of sleep, smoking tobacco, chemical pollution, and a lack of exercise can wreak havoc on the body. However, since animal flesh and the things that come out of animals are always toxic, the main cause of cancer will always be animal protein, casein, the excessive amount of fat found in all animal products, and the 2-9 percent of naturally-occurring trans-fatty acids found in meat and dairy. Even though we're all born with cancer cells, the cells won't "activate" and turn deadly unless they are "expressed". So, preemptively amputating one's breasts (mastectomy), or taking some other drastic action, will NOT prevent cancer development if the cell "activators" are still present. Since cancer thrives in the acidic environment that animal protein creates, it is essential to eat plant-based foods exclusively, and control the non-dietary factors to the best of your ability. Check out this 2014 University of Southern California study which clearly indicts animal protein as a deadly toxin. http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abs ... %2900062-X

As for osteoporosis, animal protein contributes to this problem because keeping blood and tissues at a neutral Ph balance always takes priority over keeping calcium phosphate in the bones. Bones can hold out for years with insufficient calcium, but blood and tissue cannot because they need phosphate to offset the acidity. When the body becomes acidic with animal protein, it withdraws calcium phosphate from the bones and uses the alkaline mineral phosphate to keep the Ph levels of blood and tissues balanced. The calcium is then excreted through our urine. Epidemiological evidence proves that people who consume the least amount of animal protein always have the lowest rates of osteoporosis and bone fractures. I'm still looking for the first medical report in history that can indict broccoli, bananas or asparagus as a cause of illness.

As for diabetes, most people are unaware that animal protein and fat raise blood sugar as much as stress, refined carbohydrates like white rice and sugar! Therefore, diabetes can be treated, controlled or cured with a low-protein, low-fat, low-sugar, low-refined-carbohydrate vegan diet, along with cardio exercise and a minimum amount of sress. A 2013 study also showed that marijuana is of great benefit to diabetics. As you regain control of your blood sugar, you will probably have to continue taking insulin shots for a time. However, within one year, you should be able to do away with insulin completely! (Pig serum used to be the key ingredient in insulin until doctors discovered it exacerbated foot neuropathy and ocular issues. All insulin is now made synthetically from human insulin.)
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby Elessar » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:44 pm

That looks pasted, which is a shame.

Cancer and heart disease are diseases of old age. Eating meat may well contribute to them, but it's only because of modern technology that we live anywhere near long enough to start getting those diseases. Something has to kill you eventually. Petrol kills cars, because if you put enough petrol in a car over time, eventually it will break down. But evolutionarily speaking, we're genetically no different to cavemen who died in their 30s. They didn't get cancer and heart disease because they didn't live anywhere near long enough.
 
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby YAFF » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:46 pm

Elessar wrote:That looks pasted, which is a shame.


whatever

Elessar wrote:Cancer and heart disease are diseases of old age. Eating meat may well contribute to them, but it's only because of modern technology that we live anywhere near long enough to start getting those diseases. Something has to kill you eventually. Petrol kills cars, because if you put enough petrol in a car over time, eventually it will break down. But evolutionarily speaking, we're genetically no different to cavemen who died in their 30s. They didn't get cancer and heart disease because they didn't live anywhere near long enough.


You won't get heart disease or cancer from an organic vegan diet
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby Elessar » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:58 pm

What did Linda McCartney die of again, Dr YAFF?
 
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Re: Speciesism Is Just As Bad As Racism And Sexism

Postby WeeMann » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:04 pm

YAFF wrote:
WeeMann wrote:These things become wrong in human life purely because we have developed a moral system (something that I would struggle to see being argued as natural - it happens nowhere else in the animal kingdom). Incest is also distasteful for us, but, again, it happens right through the animal kingdom. From a 'large picture' evolutionary viewpoint, it's a bad idea, but viewed short term from the standpoint of a small community, it may be necessary to continue the species.
You can't claim something is unnatural purely because you don't like it.


I'm moving away from the "natural" argument as it is just going in circles. It's almost as if you are using "natural" to mean "morally acceptable or normal"


Not at all. You argued earlier in the thread that certain things weren't natural - rape, cannibalism, paedophilia. I've pointed out that these things are perfectly natural, if distasteful to our moral compass.

The fact that our race has been eating meat since time immemorial also means that it is perfectly natural. You may not like it and you may fight against the way the meat is delivered to our table, but it is fact.
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