The refugee crisis.

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The refugee crisis.

Postby lord of all darkness » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:42 am

Like many, i am saddened by the inhumanity of my fellow man. Obviously ISIS is a given. I am talking about the disgusting comments on social media. I have relatives posting pictures (or memes) of starving African children with pictures of very wealthy Middle Eastern women out shopping, with the punchline of "Sorry kids, guess you'll be waiting longer". I am sure the creators of these disgustingly racist memes don't want starving African kids in their country either. Yet i still see similar posts, all attacking governments around the world for wanting to do their fair share.

The common argument is that the refugees are all single young Muslim men (FOX news code for terrorists).The truth is, most refugees are fleeing ISIS as they don't want their wives and daughters to be raped; their male relatives beheaded and tortured. Most of those fleeing are not Sunni Muslims, rather they are Shia Muslims, Yazidis, Christians, Jews and other minorities.

When we have right wing heads of governments like Tony Abbott (who is a peanut) of Australia agreeing to take in 12 thousand refugees and to give the UNHCR approx. 50 million Aussie Dollars (22 Million pounds). I still fail to understand the selfishness of people that are only thinking of how this flood of refugees are affecting your comfortable lives.

Rant over.
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby JLP » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:21 am

I totally agree. Facebook is full of links saying all of these refugees are terrorists. Whilst there are more than likely some bad apples in there using the crisis as an excuse to get to Europe, the vast majority appear to be victims of this crisis. A crisis the west helped to cause by meddling in the Middle East, especially Libya.
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby fairydandy » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:40 am

Personally, I don't think they are terrorists, it never entered my mind at all. Do I want to go to work to pay taxes to keep them? In a word, no.
 
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby Kes » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:40 pm

When Germany said OK to letting 100,000 refugees in, honestly, my first thought was that's all the encouragement the next 700,000 need to start on their not so merry way. And when they're all sleeping three deep in Sofia's main train station, what happens then?

As was put to me, if you're fleeing for life, literally dragging your kids with you, worried about where the next bullet is coming from, then as soon as you get over the border in Bulgaria, Turkey and wherever else they first pitch up, it has got to look like paradise. But the concensus seems to be that a lot of these people have a final destination already worked out, and it ain't the places where they're currently congregating.

Just out of curiosity, do Germany, Austria, Norway and Sweden have a lower qualification time to obtain a Euro passport than, say, Greece or France?

I don't agree with a lot Cameron says, but the perfect solution is to try and make their own land safer, and more desirable than a long journey followed by the word "Asylum".
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby Kes » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:49 pm

Do I think any of these refugees will ever carry out terrorist acts?

Thinking diametrically, then if I was a planner for IS, ISIL, ISIS, or whatever you call them, then getting someone to do what happened in Tunisia, on Brighton beach, or somewhere else where the Police wouldnt very quick off the blocks, would be an absolute classic.

So, even though some would label it scaremongering, I guess because it's SO feasible, I certainly wouldn't totally rule it out.

As the Ethiopian government used to say, simplistically I know, think of the people as fish, and the terrorists as sharks. Sharks need the fish to survive, so wherever the fish are, the sharks won't be too far away.

And yes, with the traffic of people leaving Britain to go and join IS, then as 7/7 showed, the potential is already here.
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby Kes » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:57 pm

Seriously, the council house waiting lists in most British towns and cities are knocking on three years. The average house price in the Home Counties is knocking on a quarter of a million pounds. A friend of my other half has recently split up from her husband, and had to rent a three bedroom house... £1400 pcm.

Where are you going to put these people?

Butlins?

Fucking hell. Show them an apartment in Butlins and they'll be taking us all to the European Court of Human Rights.
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby action » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:59 am

here we go, aint it grand
here we stand on foreign sand
and we're not alone

Why do we fear what we don't understand
Can't we reach out our hand to try just say 'hello'

Come not as concubine - come not as foe
Come with intentions clearly shown
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby Kes » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:38 pm

Yeah, it's bad when you don't understand something.

I don't understand people wanting to come to a country, where for the last thirty years, some of it's OWN people have been living in cardboard boxes, and the government doesn't seem to give a fuck.

Get a bit of media generated Euro-euphoria going though, and all of a sudden they're jumping through hoops in some crazy competition for which country can volunteer to take the most.

Two years ago, there were 22.8 million people residing in Syria, let's say just a tenth of them don't really fancy being planted in shallow ground by IS (being realistic, that's a VERY low estimate). That's a lot of people yet to accommodate.

And that's just Syria. We've then got other refugees fleeing Iraq, Libya, Egypt, and about half a dozen African states.

Crisis? It hasn't even started yet.
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:02 am

I'm old enough to remember the Uganda crisis of 1972.

Uganda was a former British colony that gained it's Independance in the late sixties. One of the things the British did, while it was a colony, was draft in a workforce from India, who then set about creating a range of businesses. Basically, one percent of the population controlled five percent of the country's wealth.

To cut a long story short, a guy called Idi Amin came to power, and in 1972, made a decision to give the Ugandan Asian community, seven days to clear out. After this period, his troops were allowed to rape, murder, or do anything else they wanted to, without fear of disciplinary action. The people uprooted were literally stripped of their possessions/valuables before being allowed to leave the country.

I think this affected about 60,000 people. Britain took in about 27,000, Canada and America a few thousand, some fled to neighbouring countries, or back to India, and about 22,000 were left unaccounted for. Apparently, because bullets cost about 4 pence each, back then, his troops were encouraged to use "manual means" in carrying out the ethnic cleansing.

Kind of sounds a little like the one at the moment?

I remember an old RAF camp on the south coast being turned into a refugee camp of sorts. Thing is, I don't remember the rest of Europe giving a flying fuck. Maybe they'd say the only reason the Indians were in Uganda, was the British, so fuck them. I don't know, I was only 12 at the time, I didn't really understand it.
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby Lino » Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:11 am

They mess with Syria as they did with Iraq, ISIS gets good money from west (oil) and Qatar and all those friends in the middle East who don't accept any refugees.
Europe was already showing its bad side with the "crisis" and austerity, this was the drop that made the glass spill over. European Union is dead as its essence is gone and has been misused by the bureaucratic power that took control of it in the last 15 years. And how they allow Orbán to build a fence around his country and demand shooting of fleeing refugees goes beyound my comprehension.

Many Europeans needed refuge during the world wars and cold war, now they refuse the right for others to seek a safe place. And our politicians already ignored the former Yugoslavia (it was announced since the end of 1991) and Albania's civil wars and Ukraine until it was too late with severe consequences, and now this.
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby JLP » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:50 am

Kes wrote:I'm old enough to remember the Uganda crisis of 1972.

Uganda was a former British colony that gained it's Independance in the late sixties. One of the things the British did, while it was a colony, was draft in a workforce from India, who then set about creating a range of businesses. Basically, one percent of the population controlled five percent of the country's wealth.

To cut a long story short, a guy called Idi Amin came to power, and in 1972, made a decision to give the Ugandan Asian community, seven days to clear out. After this period, his troops were allowed to rape, murder, or do anything else they wanted to, without fear of disciplinary action. The people uprooted were literally stripped of their possessions/valuables before being allowed to leave the country.

I think this affected about 60,000 people. Britain took in about 27,000, Canada and America a few thousand, some fled to neighbouring countries, or back to India, and about 22,000 were left unaccounted for. Apparently, because bullets cost about 4 pence each, back then, his troops were encouraged to use "manual means" in carrying out the ethnic cleansing.

Kind of sounds a little like the one at the moment?

I remember an old RAF camp on the south coast being turned into a refugee camp of sorts. Thing is, I don't remember the rest of Europe giving a flying fuck. Maybe they'd say the only reason the Indians were in Uganda, was the British, so fuck them. I don't know, I was only 12 at the time, I didn't really understand it.


I think, IIRC, Uganda was part of the Commonwealth and, as we were not in the Common Market in 1972, Europe had no obligation to take anyone.

Not even sure why it does now. Could the other Middle East countries take in some ?
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby Lino » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:48 pm

Unfortunately, it's more complicated than we think. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, etc, have some sort of blame in the situation. Other than the Suni / Shiite division, you have wahaabits, alawites, etc in the conflict. Plus the Kurds against which Turkey has been in war for ages, and which also fight ISIS. Then Russia, the new version of USSR (of which Putin still dreams of), helps Assad and the west fight him....
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Re: The refugee crisis.

Postby lord of all darkness » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:33 am

I think the most common thing i hear is, where are we (the West) going to house all the refugees? There is no quick solution. It is going to cost billions of dollars in the short term. There are vast areas of the globe (Australia, Russia and former USSR states), that new communities could be formed. I guess it will take some vision from our leaders to make it happen.
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