"Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Delilah » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:21 am

Innuendoes wrote:Anyone can find the "proof" of the topic they want to present, and "win their argument", if they look for it. Doesn't matter if it's pro or con. If you look for it, you will find it, if it's right or wrong, it will still be there somewhere.


Well, no. Emotional arguments can be made on most any side of any discussion, but actual evidence and proof are totally different things from feelings and thoughts.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:23 am

Delilah wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:Anyone can find the "proof" of the topic they want to present, and "win their argument", if they look for it. Doesn't matter if it's pro or con. If you look for it, you will find it, if it's right or wrong, it will still be there somewhere.


Well, no. Emotional arguments can be made on most any side of any discussion, but actual evidence and proof are totally different things from feelings and thoughts.


I can find 100 websites that say God exists by googling it. I can also find 100 that say he doesn't in the same amount of time. That's what I am talking about as far as finding info to build a case/agenda, whatever. You see?
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Delilah » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:24 am

Innuendoes wrote:
Delilah wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:Anyone can find the "proof" of the topic they want to present, and "win their argument", if they look for it. Doesn't matter if it's pro or con. If you look for it, you will find it, if it's right or wrong, it will still be there somewhere.


Well, no. Emotional arguments can be made on most any side of any discussion, but actual evidence and proof are totally different things from feelings and thoughts.


I can find 100 websites that say God exists by googling it. I can also find 100 that say he doesn't in the same amount of time. That's what I am talking about as far as finding info to build a case/agenda, whatever. You see?


Oh, I get you. "Proof", not proof. There is a difference.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Lino » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:50 am

Greywoolfe wrote:Looking at the Spanish city of Cordoba, it seems to have a rather chequered history. First built under Roman Christian rule, it was then overthrown by the Visigoths, then later reconquered by the Christians before being invaded by the Moors when the Ottoman empire dominated Mediterranean Europe. The main palace, the Alcazar, was an Islamic palace, which later had a Christian church built slap in the middle, and then became the HQ of the Spanish Inquisition. (Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!) The great mosque is now a Catholic church called The Cathedral Of Our Lady Of The Assumption.

Based on that, I think the name Cordoba was chosen to reflect the various different cultures that the centre is hoped to build a bridge between, just as Cordoba was a crossroads for Christian, Muslim and Visigoth culture in years gone by. Cordoba in Spain has more of a link with Christianity and the inquisition than it does with Islam, in all honesty, and as a symbol of conquest, Cordoba was more symbolic of the Christians conquering the Visigoths than it was the Muslims invading Europe. It's only in the current climate that people tend to think of symbols of islamic conquest, and I suspect the media have much to answer for with that as well.


The Caliphate of Cordoba was the height of Muslim domination of Iberian Península and the region of Cordoba and Granada was the last to fall to Christians in 1492, some 6 centuries after the start of the reconquest of the península to the Moors.

About the Mosque, if there was one, why does it have to go? Muslims were killed in the crashes after all. And even the towers had muslim influence (shape of the windows).
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Dusty » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:55 am

Ace wrote:As WF's post points out, the original project seemed ok. It is people like Geller, and then the media, that have made this an issue, whipping up feelings against the project and distorting the project to get people on-side in their campaign. But ask yourself this. Would you support Geller's argument if you had to support her underlying reasons?

If it were simply a case of a Mosque being built on ground zero then I agree, it would be disrespectful to many many people. But thats not the plan, nor was it ever the plan. Geller, and her type, have succeeded in bringing out the worst in people. The stereotyping, the irrational fear or other cultures and in some cases bigotry.


Thanks for that. To give you an idea of just what type of person Geller is, here are some more quotes from her about all manner of things- she's a certifiable nutbar...

Pam Geller wrote:Geller: Obama “is a third worlder and a coward” who’s “appeas[ing] his Islamic overlords.” In an April 13 blog post, Gellerwrote: “Obama is a third worlder and a coward. He will do nothing but beat up on our friends to appease his Islamic overlords. All this is going down while Obama plays footsie at his nuclear nonsense campfire — sucking up to Iran’s enablers while beating up our allies.”

Geller: Liberal Jews are “lost souls,” “self-hating wretches.” In her January 25 Newsmax column, Geller wrote that Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League “has come out against a great and wonderful friend of the Jews, Rush Limbaugh.” Geller added that this “is symptomatic of a deeper problem: I have for years derided Jews in America and the Jewish lay leadership for tolerating and supporting clear and present enemies of the Jewish people among our senior ranks. It is a sickness of the soul.” She further wrote, “The liberal Jew worships at the church of human secularism. These lost souls are married to their liberal dogma” and asked, “Which Jews support deleterious characters like Foxman? Which Jews give blood money to these self-hating wretches?”

Geller on Obama’s Israel policy: “Jews Refuse to Get on Obama’s Trains.” In a post apparently responding to Obama’s opposition to settlement growth, Geller wrote, “Jews refuse to get on Obama’s Trains.” She added: “Obama is pressuring Jews to “evacuate” from parts of Israel? And what Warsaw ghetto does the muhammadan [sic] president have in mind? I think I am gonna hurl. The Jews will not go. The Jews will not submit to this century’s nazis [sic] and Mansourian poser. No way, bloodsuckers. Not again. Never again.”

Geller on transgender Obama appointee: “What a freak show this presidency is.” In a January 4 blog post, Geller responded to a report that Obama named a transgender appointee to a Commerce Department position by stating, “Does Obama know anyone who isn’t wacky, radical, militant, judeophobic, socialist, marxist, pedophilic? …… Does he chill with anyone who is normal? Isn’t there one Marilyn Munster in the family? What a freak show this presidency is.”

Geller: Obama “wants jihad to win. That’s what he is doing.” In an April 1 blog post titled, “”President Jihad: Obama Encouraged Violent Palestinian Muslim protests against Israel,” Geller claimed Obama “is agitating Muslims against Jews” and stated, “The President of the United States is advancing jihad against the oath of office that he took.” Geller also stated in an April 11 post, “President Sarkozy called [Obama] ‘a madman,’ ‘a lunatic.’ Perhaps, I don’t know — but one thing is for sure: Hussein is a muhammadan. He’s not insane ………..he wants jihad to win. That’s what he is doing. Of course, to the western mind, the rational mind, the logical mind, the American mind, that is insane.”

Geller called Democrats “National Socialists.” In a March 13 blog post, Geller wrote, ”National Socialists [Democrats] Obamacare: Sheeps to ‘Slaughter Solution.’” She added, “The buzz on Capitol Hill is that the Democrats are now considering what is being called the ’Slaughter Solution’ that will allow ObamaCare to be signed into law WITHOUT HOUSE MEMBERS EVEN HAVING TO VOTE.“

Geller: Senate Democrats supporting health care reform voted “to rape the American people.” In a December 21, 2009, blog post, Geller wrote of the cloture vote for health care reform: “The moochers and the looters, the crooks and degenerates voted at 1 am this morning to rip the constitution to shreds, to rape the American people and to nationalize medicine.” She added that passing the bill on Christmas Eve would be “an act of treason and blasphemy.”

Geller declared “VICTORY!” after Swiss established ban on minaret construction. In a November 29 post to her Atlas Shrugs blog — headlined “VICTORY! SWISS BAN MOSQUE MINARETS IN A LANDSLIDE VOTE” — Pamela Geller commented: “The Swiss have hand [sic] enough. They actually had the spine to take back their country. I wonder how the religion of peaceniks will react…in their usual tolerant and pacifist manner?”

Geller: “Obama Goes Full On Nazi.” Geller headlined a November 9, 2009, post “Obama Goes Full On Nazi: Subject: “Democratic consultant says he got a warning from White House after appearing on Fox News.”

Geller: ” ‘Kick a Jew’ days … are part of this growing evil Evil unleashed with an anti-semite in the White House.” In a December 14, 2009, post, Geller wrote:

It’s as if the floodgates of hell have been thrown open. The moratorium on the holocaust is officially over and all the savages are free to incite, hate and destroy. Clearly those “Kick a Jew” days discussed here and here in schools are part of this growing evil Evil [sic] unleashed with an anti-semite in the White House.
Geller: “Obama is bringing his jihad to Illinois.” In a December 15, 2009, post, Geller responded to reports that Guantanamo Bay detainees may be housed at the Thomson Correctional Center in Illinois by stating: “Obama is bringing his jihad to Illinois. Has anyone asked the people of Chicago if they want KSM’s soul mates in their state? Obama’s treachery is breathtaking. A killer’s paradise.”

Geller: “It is well known that Obama allegedly was involved with a crack whore in his youth,” and he only visited Pakistan while in college because of “jihad or drugs.” In an August 1, 2009, post, Geller discussed rumors of a Palin divorce being spread by bloggers, including one supposedly tied to CNN and stated:

Let’s understand this. CNN won’t touch the birth certificate issue, the Rezko/Auchi corruption, Obama’s anti-semitism, his ACORN/SEIU ties and corruption, and other legitimate stories that need investigation. But they write fiction about Palin. Daily. So why not tell the truth about Obama and his reported strange sexual predilections? My question is, it is well known that Obama allegedly was involved with a crack whore in his youth. Very seedy stuff. Why aren’t they pursuing that story? Find the ho, give her a show! Obama allegedly trafficked in some very deviant practices. Where’s the investigation?
Geller further stated of Obama’s trip to Pakistan during college: “Back in the early 80’s, there were only two reasons to travel to Pakistan. Jihad or drugs. I think he went for the drugs and came back with jihad.”

Geller on Dome of the Rock: “The dome has got to go.” On September 27, 2009, Geller posted an image of Muslims praying at the Dome of the Rock, one of Islam’s holy sites, and stated, “On Erev Yom Kippur, Muslims attack Jews in Jerusalem. The dome has got to go. It is sitting atop the great Jewish temple. The dome has got to go. It’s time to push back and stop indulging evil. Evil is made possible by the sanction you give it. Withdraw your sanction (paraphrasing Rand).”


Link to article Thank goodness that CNN had the cojones to call her on being an anti-Muslim bigot.

It seems that this whole fiasco has been Murdoch and Geller whipping up a storm over nothing at all...

Linked article wrote:The Cordoba Initiative hasn’t begun fundraising yet for its $100 million goal. The group’s latest fundraising report with the State Attorney General’s office, from 2008, shows exactly $18,255 – not enough even for a down payment on the half of the site the group has yet to purchase.

The group also lacks even the most basic real estate essentials: no blueprint, architect, lobbyist or engineer — and now operates amid crushing negative publicity. The developers didn't line up advance support for the project from other religious leaders in the city, who could have risen to their defense with the press.


“If they would have done the town hall from the get-go you would have at least had a real opportunity to get in front of it and explain what they were trying to do and address head-on the misinformation,” she said.

At one of the meetings, the word “mosque” was used, and that gave a hook to the project’s deepest objectors.


So not only have the people concerned not even thought through the fundraising or other vital requirements for the Cordoba project, but thanks to the demagogy of Murdoch and Geller, they may very well be unable to now or ever. I would hardly call that a triumph of democracy in action, if that be the case.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Princess of Taylor » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:10 pm

The whole thing is just so ignorant. I was watching the news today and a new poll has just come out suggesting that a higher percentage of Americans now think that President Obama is Muslim. That means that people who previously were correct in their belief about the president's religion have changed their minds. It's insanity.

I was in NYC on 9/11 and believe me, the entire city was affected: black, white, gay, straight, and yes, Christian, Muslim. People from all walks of life died that day and now people of all walks of life are serving in our armed forces to protect our country. Building a Mosque (or more accurately a Muslim community center) in the vicinity of Ground Zero should be viewed, as Mayor Blumberg suggests, as a victory and as a statement to those around the world who are peddling hate and violence that we are above that and we won't stand for it.

But no, it's much more fun to call the president a closet Muslim and say that everyone in the world who practices Islam is anti-American.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Delilah » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:09 pm

Princess of Taylor wrote:The whole thing is just so ignorant. I was watching the news today and a new poll has just come out suggesting that a higher percentage of Americans now think that President Obama is Muslim. That means that people who previously were correct in their belief about the president's religion have changed their minds. It's insanity.

I was in NYC on 9/11 and believe me, the entire city was affected: black, white, gay, straight, and yes, Christian, Muslim. People from all walks of life died that day and now people of all walks of life are serving in our armed forces to protect our country. Building a Mosque (or more accurately a Muslim community center) in the vicinity of Ground Zero should be viewed, as Mayor Blumberg suggests, as a victory and as a statement to those around the world who are peddling hate and violence that we are above that and we won't stand for it.

But no, it's much more fun to call the president a closet Muslim and say that everyone in the world who practices Islam is anti-American.


Yeah, we give great lip-service to that whole idea that we're E Pluribus Unum, from many, one, all of us are immigrants and people of any color or background can be American, blah blah blah. The truth is that there's an overwhelming undercurrent of belief among the majority white that the only people who are "real" Americans are white Christians. Anyone else is just a bit less legitimate. But you won't get anyone to admit that straight out. It comes out with things like the birther conspiracy (where people just can't believe that such a man could be an American) and the oddly widespread belief that Obama is Muslim (which wouldn't actually make him an illegitmate President). I heard the very same individuals who raised hell about his relationship with Reverend Wright calling Obama a closet Muslim during his campaign. I think what it really comes down to is that Obama is awfully tan to be President and Muslims are a bit too non-Christian to be Americans.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:13 pm

God bless the Daily Mail. They are onto this now with their usual non biased reporting. :)
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Dusty » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:25 pm

Ah, yes- the same publication that proclaimed "Hurrah for the blackshirts" back in the 1930s. Upholding the finest tradition of balanced reporting there, then...
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Dusty » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:49 pm

This illustrates just how successful the media hate tactics are getting:

Link to article

The news article wrote:In March 2003, federal officials were being criticized for disrespecting the rights of Arab-Americans in their efforts to crack down on domestic security threats in the post-9/11 environment. Hoping to calm the growing tempers, FBI officials in New York hosted a forum on ways to deal with Muslim and Arab-Americans without exacerbating social tensions. The bureau wanted to provide agents with "a clear picture," said Kevin Donovan, director of the FBI's New York office.

Brought in to speak that morning -- at the office building located just blocks from Ground Zero -- was one of the city's most respected Muslim voices: Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. The imam offered what was for him a familiar sermon to those in attendance. "Islamic extremism for the majority of Muslims is an oxymoron," he said. "It is a fundamental contradiction in terms."

It was, by contemporaneous news accounts, a successful lecture.

Flash forward six-and-a-half years, and Feisal Abdul Rauf occupies a far different place in the political consciousness. The imam behind a controversial proposal to build an Islamic cultural center near those same FBI offices has been called "a radical Muslim," a "militant Islamist" and, simply, the "enemy" by conservative critics. His Cordoba House project, meanwhile, has been framed as a conduit for Hamas to funnel money to domestic terrorist operations.

For those who actually know or have worked with the imam, the descriptions are frighteningly -- indeed, depressingly -- unhinged from reality. The Feisal Abdul Rauf they know, spent the past decade fighting against the very same cultural divisiveness and religious-based paranoia that currently surrounds him.


Six and a half years of insidious drip-feeding islamophobic hatred into the gutter press and from there into mainstream society has changed their perception of one person from being one of the most respected people in his position to simply being 'the enemy'. McCarthyism is alive and well in 21st century America.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:03 pm

Apparently 18% of Americans think Obama is a Muslim according to a recent poll. :shock:
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:25 pm

JLP wrote:Apparently 18% of Americans think Obama is a Muslim according to a recent poll. :shock:


They've thought that for a long time, though. Nothing new. Republicans are big on this as a means to get him out of office, just like they love to say he's not an American citizen.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:29 pm

Delilah wrote:
Princess of Taylor wrote:The whole thing is just so ignorant. I was watching the news today and a new poll has just come out suggesting that a higher percentage of Americans now think that President Obama is Muslim. That means that people who previously were correct in their belief about the president's religion have changed their minds. It's insanity.

I was in NYC on 9/11 and believe me, the entire city was affected: black, white, gay, straight, and yes, Christian, Muslim. People from all walks of life died that day and now people of all walks of life are serving in our armed forces to protect our country. Building a Mosque (or more accurately a Muslim community center) in the vicinity of Ground Zero should be viewed, as Mayor Blumberg suggests, as a victory and as a statement to those around the world who are peddling hate and violence that we are above that and we won't stand for it.

But no, it's much more fun to call the president a closet Muslim and say that everyone in the world who practices Islam is anti-American.


Yeah, we give great lip-service to that whole idea that we're E Pluribus Unum, from many, one, all of us are immigrants and people of any color or background can be American, blah blah blah. The truth is that there's an overwhelming undercurrent of belief among the majority white that the only people who are "real" Americans are white Christians. Anyone else is just a bit less legitimate. But you won't get anyone to admit that straight out. It comes out with things like the birther conspiracy (where people just can't believe that such a man could be an American) and the oddly widespread belief that Obama is Muslim (which wouldn't actually make him an illegitmate President). I heard the very same individuals who raised hell about his relationship with Reverend Wright calling Obama a closet Muslim during his campaign. I think what it really comes down to is that Obama is awfully tan to be President and Muslims are a bit too non-Christian to be Americans.


Those immigrants whom we descend from didn't attempt to overthrow anything in America, nor did they run around bombing or blowing themselves up.

My good friend, Michael, who is Native American would be very disgusted to read this post, sorry to say, as would all my part Native friends. Michael calls the majority of the US, wannabes. Hahaha.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:31 am

JLP wrote:Apparently 18% of Americans think Obama is a Muslim according to a recent poll. :shock:


I think what's more worrying than the ignorance of those 18% is the underlying implication that him being a Muslim would be a bad thing, as opposed to a complete irrelevance.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Delilah » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:08 am

Innuendoes wrote:Those immigrants whom we descend from didn't attempt to overthrow anything in America, nor did they run around bombing or blowing themselves up.

My good friend, Michael, who is Native American would be very disgusted to read this post, sorry to say, as would all my part Native friends. Michael calls the majority of the US, wannabes. Hahaha.


Those immigrants that we descended from DID overthrow their government to form America. And yes indeed, commit genocide against the native population. Which I am also descended from, btw. Strongly descended from on both sides of my family. So I guess I'm a part Native person who just typed all that up.
 
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